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Thursday, October 09, 2008

Renault Bets on Electric Vehicles

The French carmaker doubts that hybrids can reduce emissions sufficiently.

By Peter Fairley

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Hybrid killer: The Renault Z.E. concept car, showing at this week’s Mondial de l’Automobile, in Paris, relies on lithium-ion batteries alone to deliver 160 to 200 kilometers of driving. “Z.E.” refers to zero emissions of conventional air pollutants, as well as to next to zero emissions of carbon dioxide when the car is charged from renewable-energy sources.
Credit: Peter Fairley

Might the most fuel-efficient vehicles in mass production--powerful hybrids, such as Toyota's Prius, that can run on either gasoline or electricity--already be destined for the science museum? That's the argument that French carmaker Renault is making at the Mondial de l'Automobile, the giant auto show running in Paris this week. Renault says that it is engineering a pair of battery-powered electric vehicles (EVs), to be produced starting in 2011, that it claims will be cheaper to build, cost markedly less to power, and produce far less carbon dioxide.

Renault's vision for electric cars is small vehicles principally designed for commuting. At the Paris show, Renault unveiled a concept car showing the design of a compact EV commuter car: an EV version of its Kangoo utility van, with startling acid-green windows to minimize air conditioning and a lithium-ion battery that carries the van 160 to 200 kilometers on an average charge. That range "really covers the usage by our customers, who are using their cars only for commuting and maybe short trips during the weekend," says Renault EV project director Serge Yoccoz. As a result, he predicts that such EVs could capture from 10 to 15 percent of the European car market as early as 2015. (Hybrids currently command just 2 percent of auto sales worldwide.)

Renault won't be the first to test the commuter market with battery EVs. Mitsubishi Motors announced in Paris last week that it will begin testing its i-MiEV minicar in Europe next month with a view to commercial sales by 2010. Daimler, meanwhile, said that a battery version of its popular Smart Fortwo, in testing in London since last year, will be sold starting at the end of 2009.

Renault says that EVs are a necessity because hybrids cannot deliver the level of gasoline use and emissions reductions that governments and customers are demanding of automakers. The EV is the breakthrough required because, according to Renault, driving the EV Kangoo displayed in Paris generates zero carbon dioxide when charged with renewable energy, and no more than 60 grams per kilometer when charged on today's coal-heavy power grids; when charging in France, carbon-dioxide emissions would be somewhere in between because nuclear power provides 80 percent of France's electricity. Any of those scenarios compares well with the more than 130 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer coming out the tailpipe of Renault's diesel-fueled Kangoos, which are relatively efficient vehicles for their class.

Lithium batteries for Renault's first round of products, at least, will come from a joint venture of Japan's Nissan, with which Renault is partnering on EV technology development, and NEC. Newer lithium technologies have eclipsed the performance of the joint venture's manganese-based lithium-ion chemistry, but Yoccoz says that the Nissan-NEC process is one of the cheapest.

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Comments

  • Prius does not run on electricity
    Roy82 on 10/09/2008 at 1:50 AM
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    A Toyota Prius, like most "non-plug-in" hybrids does not run on electricity any more than a conventional car engine is driven by a flywheel. It runs on gasoline and gasoline alone. For this, it is indeed obsolete.
    Rate this comment: 12345
  • Renault Is Right
    Mapou on 10/09/2008 at 3:14 AM
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    We don't need no stinking hybrids. Pure electric vehicles are the way to go. Cities around the world should immediately embark on a program to install charging stations all over the place. They can start with parking meters and parking garages. They should think of it as a business, an opportunity to make a profit. It's a win-win situation.

    Better yet, cities should buy whole fleets of small electric cars, park them everywhere and offer them as a utility service. City dwellers could use subscription or prepaid cards to unlock the nearest available EV and use it for personal transportation. This would encourage carpooling too.
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • Re: Renault Is Right
      mkogrady on 10/09/2008 at 12:35 PM
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      Pure electric makes sense becasue there are less parts to break, parts more standardized and maintenance costs will be cheaper. If they can engineer it so the most basic back-yard mechanic can work on it, then they'll get my business. I hate greasy cars to work on.
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • >>> yes, Renault is right, but 100% electric cars needs very long duration batteries >>>
    Gaetano Marano on 10/09/2008 at 6:29 AM
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    yes, Renault is right, but 100% electric cars will NEVER succeed until VERY LONG duration batteries will be available or MY idea of a (standardized) "cellphoneCAR" will be adopted:

    http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/033cellphoneCAR.html

    it's very sad that I haven't the funds to do (at least) some basic researches about my Energy and Space ideas! :(
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • Re: >>> yes, Renault is right, but 100% electric cars needs very long duration batteries >>>
      Mapou on 10/09/2008 at 1:32 PM
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      We don't need long duration batteries in the city. 40-50 miles range is good enough. Besides, if a city is wise enough to provide a fleet of electric cars for its citizens to use, then it's just a matter of parking the car you're driving when its batteries are low and hop into another fully charged car that is parked nearby. The cities should provide plenty of charging stations. Indeed, the cars and the charging stations should be designed in such a way that simply parking the car in a designated area would trigger a mechanism that automatically plugs it into a charger.

      Come to think of it, even long distance driving could use the same approach. It's kind of like the days when the horse was the primary transportation system. Long distance messengers and transportation companies (Wells Fargo comes to mind) used horse change stations to get fresh horses on the way. Until battery technology improves to the point where they can be charged instantly, this is a viable compromise, in my opinion.
      Rate this comment: 12345
      • Re: swap the batteries
        gabrielg01 on 10/09/2008 at 8:30 PM
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        You don't need to hop cars. You could swap out your low batteries for charged batteries at charging stations. Instead of gas stations, we would have battery swap stations.

        If we had a standardized system in place, the swap could be done in less than 5 minutes.

        PS - ignore this Gaetano dude, he always writes about "his" ideas - every good idea in the world is "his", and everyone else is just out there stealing "his" ideas. muhahahahaa...
        Rate this comment: 12345
        • Re: swap the batteries
          Mapou on 10/10/2008 at 2:55 AM
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          You got an excellent point about swapping the batteries. The problem is that it requires a more complex infrastructure (employees, battery storage areas, etc.) The advantage is that it is a better solution if you want to own your own vehicle and don't want to swap.

          Unattended charging stations installed all over the place and the use of public vehicles would be a simpler and more economical solution in my opinion, at least for cities, if only because it will alleviate congestion by eliminating the need for so many cars. Most vehicles are idle most of the time anyway.

          Having said that, I think that both ideas should be carefully studied for advantages and disavantages.
          Rate this comment: 12345
          • Re: swap the batteries
            Gaetano Marano on 10/10/2008 at 9:48 AM
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            yes, swap batteries requires complex infrastructures, but, until we'll have (maybe, in the next 10-15 years) lighter, cheaper, powerful, and VERY FAST charging batteries, the battery swap system is the ONLY way to allow the electric cars to perform very long (gasoline-cars-like) trips!

            low autonomy electric cars will never succeed not even if they'll cost less than a gasoline-only-car, that since many people can't buy, manage, parking, etc. a second car!

            that's why all peoples and families need SIGLE electric cars able to do ALL the things of today's cars

            .
            Rate this comment: 12345
        • Re: swap the batteries
          Gaetano Marano on 10/10/2008 at 9:35 AM
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          you just repeat a description of MY "swappable batteries" idea...

          and, about MY ideas, I always do a search BEFORE writing an article on my website (and dozens posts on several forums and blogs) about MY new ideas!

          .
          Rate this comment: 12345
      • Re: >>> yes, Renault is right, but 100% electric cars needs very long duration batteries >>>
        MakeSense on 10/11/2008 at 12:25 PM
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        It could be feasible to have paid chargers at the workplace, at malls and other places, so when you park for an extended period and you want to have a full charge for an extra trip that day, just swipe your credit card and recharge. This would allow even more people to rely on fully electric vehicles.
        Rate this comment: 12345
    • Re: >>> yes, Renault is right, but 100% electric cars needs very long duration batteries >>>
      KenCAD on 10/17/2008 at 2:39 PM
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      I like your thought process with the swapable battery packs just like towmotors in factories. The swaping could be tricky without a robot arm due to the fact that even the Prius battery pack weighs in at about 300 lbs.
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • Supplement All-Electric with I.C. Generator
    amgillard on 10/09/2008 at 8:48 AM
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    I could see myself in one of these all-electric vehicles - a 160 to 200 km range would be plenty for the average daily trips.

    I could also see myself being able to "unplug" the rear bumper (say with the assistance of couple of fold-down legs/rollers), and "plug in" another unit that contains a small internal combustion generator to supply additional power to recharge the batteries and so extend the range (say 500-1000 km) for those occasional long trip requirements.  It would be like turning the hatchback design into a sedan.

    The generator would be optimised to operate at a peak efficiencies for generating the required charging power, it could be diesel as it provides better options for supporting alternative renewable fuel sources, and could be quickly and easily refueled to provide additional range.
    It would give us the best of both worlds !

    The standard rear bumper could then be reattached to reduce vehicle weight for normal short range driving.
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • Re: Supplement All-Electric with I.C. Generator
      NorthernPiker on 10/09/2008 at 10:09 AM
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      Why not extend your concept to allow add-on units that provide range extension via an efficient ICE, as you noted, or a fuel cell generator (if FCs ever make it), or more batteries or via an inductively coupled power unit that draws power from a wire buried in high charging lanes. These units could be leased when required, e.g., for weekend trips.
      Rate this comment: 12345
      • Re: Supplement All-Electric with I.C. Generator
        Gaetano Marano on 10/09/2008 at 10:25 AM
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        a second (gasoline powered) generator or (worse) a very expensive fuel cells generator add too much costs to the (already too expensive) electric cars while they need to cost LESS than a gasoline-only or hybrid car if we want the electric cars market to succeed soon

        .
        Rate this comment: 12345
      • Re: Supplement All-Electric with I.C. Generator
        Gaetano Marano on 10/10/2008 at 9:38 AM
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        the "inductively coupled power unit that draws power from a wire buried in high charging lanes" is a good idea but I doubt it could be enough efficient to avoid the leak of great part of the energy

        .
        Rate this comment: 12345
  • Dual Concept.
    kbillet on 10/09/2008 at 1:49 PM
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    Lets take these ideas a little further.
    Add retractable wings to the car, so that for long trips it can fly.  Build take off lanes with takeoff ramps from highways. For both take off and landing.  Eliminate the need for driving as we know it for long trips.
    Rate this comment: 12345
  • Who Killed The Electric Car
    schkayalogy on 10/10/2008 at 11:38 PM
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    Wasn't that just a really interesting movie. I could really do with one.
    Rate this comment: 12345
  • rent a car.
    ryuuguu on 10/11/2008 at 8:26 PM
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    If you only need a car with long distance capabilities 3~4 time a year for vactions etc. Just rent a one during those times.  The saving from buying and operating an EV the rest of the time will pay for renting a bigger touring car.
    Rate this comment: 12345
  • Hybrids are an indispensable stepping stone to EV's.
    ArtInvent on 10/13/2008 at 1:18 PM
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    Hybrids of course will likely die out eventually, like everything else. What people fail to grasp is that hybrids are extremely important as a bridge technology. There is no way anyone today can afford to put enough of the right kind of batteries in a car to give it anywhere near acceptable range and lifespan that people expect from mainstream practical transportation. Good batteries are simply too expensive.

    Hybrids allow the auto industry to install much less battery, yet still significantly improve efficiency in affordable real world cars, now. (It also gets them working on electric drive motors and power electronics on a significant scale, which they've NEVER done before.) This means that the battery industry can slowly ramp up production and quality, while gradually bringing cost down, way down. At that point - and <i>only<i> at that point - will pure battery electric car  start to make sense for the mass market.

    Without hybrids, and lots of them, there basically is no industrial bridge to the massive numbers of large, good, cheap batteries we'll need.
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • Re: Hybrids are an indispensable stepping stone to EV's.
      gabrielg01 on 10/13/2008 at 5:58 PM
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      Excellent point. These technologies do need time to mature. How else can we get there, if we do not support them in their infancy?

      I hate people who say that hybrids are not worth it, because they are "too expensive and do not break even in gas savings"...It's not about gas savings. It's about supporting a technology that will eventually get us off oil.

      Saying that hybrids are too expensive, is like saying that education is too expensive. How expensive is ignorance?...
      Rate this comment: 12345
    • Re: Hybrids are an indispensable stepping stone to EV's.
      dollardragon on 10/17/2008 at 1:38 PM
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      I concur with your premise that hybrids are a bridge. I would like to know though why "good batteries are too expensive". Is it because of component  cost, industry infancy  or what? To what do you attribute " too expensive"?
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • Bill Clinton was right
    bartosis on 10/24/2008 at 11:39 AM
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    Don't fear the Kyoto CO2 treaty, technology will open new opportunities.  This 'opportunity' should have transformed industry in the old USA making it a global leader green technology.  Instead, the Bush admin, the closed minded Echo Lobbyest and the fossil fuel industry have pump fear along will untold destruction to the planet and economies.
         France with it 80% nuclear power will easily transition into a productive low carbon economy.  Their reactors can run at capacity through the off peek hour charging charging cars and other items.  No fuss, no smog and the fuel is recyclable. 
         The 'W' and his minions need to step aside and let the fossil fuel lobby painfully die.  The tree huggers will have to finally understand that nuclear power is a friend and Detroit executives have to build EVs despite what Exxon and BP dictate.
    Rate this comment: 12345
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