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Lithium-Ion Motorcycles

Continued from page 1

By Kevin Bullis

Thursday, July 19, 2007
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In the past, using lithium-ion batteries in a motorcycle would have been a bad idea because of safety concerns. Conventional lithium-ion batteries--the type used now in laptops and cell phones--can overheat and explode, which has led to massive product recalls and at least one death. In one of the electrodes, those batteries use cobalt oxide, a material that makes it possible to cram a lot of energy into a battery. But cobalt oxide is also volatile. If it begins to overheat, the material gives off oxygen, which feeds reactions that lead to "thermal runaway" and flames.

But the new lithium-ion motorcycles rely on advanced lithium-ion chemistries that don't catch fire. The new batteries use phosphate- rather than oxide-based electrodes. It takes much higher temperatures to release oxygen from phosphates, making the batteries very difficult to set on fire, even in safety tests designed to do so.

The motorcycles are limited in range, however. That's in part to keep down costs: big battery packs are expensive. Also, even lithium-ion batteries don't approach the energy density of gasoline. So while the safer lithium-ion batteries enable durable, light, and clean urban motorcycles, they're not going to allow electric motorcycles to compete with gas motorcycles for cross-country touring. The Zero motorcycle is now available with a 40-mile-range battery, and it will have an optional 80-mile pack, Saiki says. The Vectrix scooter can go up to 60 miles on a charge, while the Enertia can go up to 45 miles.

The greatest potential impact of electric motorcycles on greenhouse gases and pollution will likely be in China, where scooters are already a popular form of urban transportation. Electric-motorcycle use could increase there because the Chinese government has cracked down on conventional scooter emissions, according to electric-vehicle market analyst Peter Harrop of IDTechEx, based in the UK. Genevieve Cullen, vice president of Electric Drive Transportation Association, based in Washington, DC, says that electric motorcycles could also play a role in helping bring down the cost of advanced batteries by increasing the market for them.

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Comments
  • NOBODY WILL.........
    in his right mind buy this vehicle when can buy something like in gas for 10 times less money, no electric vehicle will take off if the tag price is higher than available cars today.

    Perhaps an explanation of WHY Li-ion or Li-ph batts are SO expensive ?

    As far i know thermal runaway is already controlled how come that a set of 300v batt costs $ 10K? is any chemical process so expensive?, how much can it be reduced (even in China) to make a real alternative?.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    advill
    07/19/2007
    Posts:15
    Avg Rating:
    2/5
    • Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
      This stuff is not even bleeding edge, it's in the Henry Ford quadracycle - village tinkerer stage.  Not even a Model-T.  At single unit production levels, it is more a piece of artwork than a true solution.

      BUT!!!  There are people who buy art.  Likewise there are those who [like me] love driving electric vehicles, or who want to make a statement.  It's a beginning.

      Nick G.
      So. Dartmouth MA
      Rate this comment: 12345

      nick47g
      07/19/2007
      Posts:18
      Avg Rating:
      3/5
      • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
        What i can´t understand is WHY are so expensive the batts?, you see on them common materials, plastics most of it,niquel or lithium ($$??), carbon,and standard metals

        A Toyota Prius with lithium batts increase it´s price in 10K´s of the already high niquel batts price.  regards
        Rate this comment: 12345

        advill
        07/19/2007
        Posts:15
        Avg Rating:
        2/5
      • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
        Look out as to what kind of statement you make. The Toyota Prius consumes more lifetime total energy from manufacture to disposal than full size SUV's and 250% more energy than a similar size conventional gasoline powered vehicle. (see http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/DUST%20PDF%20VERSION.pdf). I would be not be happy with a Prius statement that now elicits a snicker from knowledgeable people.
        Rate this comment: 12345

        tomk
        07/20/2007
        Posts:4
        Avg Rating:
        1/5
        • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
          The claim that the Prius battery contains more embedded energy than an SUV or than it will save in its lifetime is false.  See calcars.org for a detailed description of why.  In part, NiMHs are extremely valuable and won't fail to be recycled profitably.  
          Rate this comment: 12345

          cypherpunk
          07/21/2007
          Posts:3
          Avg Rating:
          5/5
          • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
            I couldn't find the information on the site.  Could  you post the full link?  Thanks!
            Rate this comment: 12345

            jdien
            07/22/2007
            Posts:2
            • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
              An extended discussion of the Prius/Hummer issue is available at http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/03/20/1858204.shtml CNW assigns the Prius with a lifespan of 109,000 miles and the Hummer with 300,000 miles.  Those figures have significant impacts on their respective life-cycle costs.
              Rate this comment: 12345

              davidh
              07/25/2007
              Posts:1
              • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
                Wow, 12,000.00 for this bike. Sheesh, for much less you can make a electric bike out of an old Honda Rebel 250 rolling frame. As electric motor technology improves and as battery technology improves, one just swaps out those parts. My electric Rebel is all interchangeable. Swap in and out batteries to fit my riding needs and budget, swap in and out sprockets. I can use cheap golf cart batteries to expensive Lithium-Ion Polymer etc chemistry batteries. With expensive & techie Lithium-Ion chemisty batteries, I get about a 70 mile range at 70 mph. Lead acid, I'm lucky for 20 miles at 30 mph. I used sprockets they gave me a higher speed with slower acceleration. Keep in mind this is DIY'er bike and not a purpose build ground up electric bike. For 12 grand, I can buy two new Honda rebels at 3 grand each. Convert one to electric, using mid price batteries, and still have some $$ for gas money for the gas Rebel or dissambele the gas engine and E-Bay the parts.

                Myself I been critical of claims about vehicle service life etc. Very few people keep a vehicle for 100,000 miles let alone 300,000 miles. Yeah I see 80's MB diesals and 70's lowrider Chevy Impala's around with 400,000 miles but those are owned by gearheads and they baby em and also seach the internet and junkyards for parts. I suspect the vast majority of vehicle are junked about 200,000 miles because they are worthless on the used car market. I take dispute about he claim of 300,000 mile hummer on the retail car market and 100,000 mile hybrid ont he retail used car market. Been my experence as an ase auto tech that most hybrid owners pamper their cars and the avg yuppie owner tends to worry about an oil changes when the engine makes a "funny noise" and the oil pour out in a some sludge form at "50,000 mile first oil change" or at the expiration of the auto lease 
                Rate this comment: 12345

                shalwechat
                07/26/2007
                Posts:3
                Avg Rating:
                5/5
              • Re: Almost NOBODY WILL - YET
                http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf
                and
                http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9750840-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt

                you may need to be careful in how these studies are conducted. selective use of data and a lack of peer review.
                Rate this comment: 12345

                shalwechat
                07/30/2007
                Posts:3
                Avg Rating:
                5/5
  • eBike or eScooter
    An interesting question is how small to make them.
    The main cost is the Lion battery and if you can make this small, you can build a cheap vehicle.

    The obvious way to make it small is to model it on a bicycle with say a 10-20 mile range and a weight in the 20KG class rather than a scooter.

    This would be sufficient for urban commuting - it would eliminate the sweat of cycling in a hot country which is probably why most people use scooters.

    However, most e-bikes look awful, so it will take some design as well as engineering to make it a viable mode of transportation.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    mahonj
    07/19/2007
    Posts:8
    Avg Rating:
    4/5
    • Re: eBike or eScooter
      Ja, lighter = better  but suggest motor drive front wheel yet peddle high gears in rear's = synergy pedal.  Don't forget regenerative braking! 60 psi tyres!  Cycloid crank gear!  Aero skin!  Recumbent?  Etc!
      Rate this comment: 12345

      H24meNu
      07/19/2007
      Posts:10
      Avg Rating:
      5/5
  • How do I charge this thing?
    Presumably I will need to charge the battery of my electrical grid which is powered by coal or oil burning generators.  So in effect this bike ( and all electric vehicles ) are designed to move the pollution from one place to another.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    islandinthen...
    07/20/2007
    Posts:3
    • Re: How do I charge this thing?
      Your argument is flawed.  Coal and oil powerplants burn much more efficiently and are more environmentally friendly than gas powered cars.  Besides, I'm typing to you now courtesy of nuke-u-lar magic. 
      Rate this comment: 12345

      PaulTiffany
      07/22/2007
      Posts:2
      Avg Rating:
      5/5
      • Re: How do I charge this thing?
        If we have a nanogenerator suit, then we can plug ourselves into the bike and keep charging it as we ride it.  We would also have different power interfaces for laptops, ipods, etc.  We'd be like cyborgs then.  http://tinyurl.com/29hakw
        Rate this comment: 12345

        HealingMindN
        07/23/2007
        Posts:1
        • Re: How do I charge this thing?
          Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if we could get our body to power stuff without using our muscles (and getting all tired and sweaty)?  Then we could eat all we want, and get rid of the fat by powering our computers and video games!
          Rate this comment: 12345

          dmm
          07/25/2007
          Posts:191
          Avg Rating:
          3/5
  • Price
    The price has to come WAY WAY WAY down.  Trade off performance for cost.  Who needs to go 65 mph while urban commuting?  Duh!  Plus, I would need a special motorcycle license, registration, and insurance for something like that.  A top speed of 40 mph is plenty.  Heck, I'd settle for 20 mph, which is a lot faster than I can pedal.  And range?  20 miles is enough.  But the price has to be less than $2000, preferably around $1000.  Lastly, do manufacturers realize that expensive things tend to get stolen in urban settings?  $12,000??  Are you kidding me?
    Rate this comment: 12345

    dmm
    07/25/2007
    Posts:191
    Avg Rating:
    3/5
    • Re: Price
      "The price has to come WAY WAY WAY down.  Trade off performance for cost.  Who needs to go 65 mph while urban commuting?  Duh!  Plus, I would need a special motorcycle license, registration, and insurance for something like that.  A top speed of 40 mph is plenty.  Heck, I'd settle for 20 mph, which is a lot faster than I can pedal.  And range?  20 miles is enough.  But the price has to be less than $2000, preferably around $1000.  Lastly, do manufacturers realize that expensive things tend to get stolen in urban settings?  $12,000??  Are you kidding me?"
      ---
      "The price has to come WAY WAY WAY down."

      I can only agree...You can take a few classes in electricity, auto mechanics with an emphisis in motorcycle mechanics and some welding classes at the community college. You can make you own electric bike.
      --
      "Who needs to go 65 mph while urban commuting?  Duh!"
      and
      "A top speed of 40 mph is plenty.  Heck, I'd settle for 20 mph, which is a lot faster than I can pedal."

      from your continuation i take it that 65 mph is excessive. Well if you are always in clogged inner city streets and not on suburban expressways, it is excessive. My gut feeling is mosr amercians consider 65 MPH the minimun acceptable speed.
      ---

      " I would need a special motorcycle license, registration, and insurance for something like that."
      and
      "Lastly, do manufacturers realize that expensive things tend to get stolen in urban settings?"

      Well, the motorcycle safety foundation offers free to very inexpensive classes for the motorcycle license. In many states, the state road test and written test is waived with proof of passing the MSF class. If the rolling frame is not DOT certifined as a motorcycle, it is illegal in many states and many states will not allow it the road, one my be religated to bicycle paths, sidewalks to the side of the road etc. Many will assume you lost your licence for driving for driving under the influence amd are riding a vehicle that is considered a motorized bicycle, which you need no licence at all, and not a motor vehicle which you need a drivers licence. I would not know how insurence would work in this featured vehicle, my guess, very high rates premium and cheap rates for state mandated lieability only. On my electric rebel, I has no problem in registering it or insuring it $130 per year state mandated lieability. The bike still have a the VIN number. If one is worried about some one stealing it, just unbolt the electric motor and take it with me. No motorcycle theif want a stripped out rolling frame or a homemade ratt-bike. Sheesh if you take the batteries and the electric motor, the thief may think it was allready stolen! (missing motor,trans, and gas tank)
      ---
      "But the price has to be less than $2000, preferably around $1000."

      The "pancake" electic motor is about $1,000. To keep it under 2,000 would be very difficult even if it was a homemade electric bike. Maybe if you can get some one to donate the donor motorcycle and your labor is free.

        
      useful links: http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_motors_perm.html

      http://www.msf-usa.org/

      http://www.marquecornblatt.com/art/cycle.html

      http://www.rebel250.com/rebelforum/index.php

      PS the marquecornblatt.com link person is using lead acid batteries(i believe)and I currently Lithium-ion with one more battry then he has.  
      Rate this comment: 12345

      shalwechat
      07/26/2007
      Posts:3
      Avg Rating:
      5/5
  • Zero motorcycles
    I like those Zero X bikes. It'd be sweet for riding quietly through the woods on trails or logging roads or whatever. Price is under $7000 too.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    drivin98
    09/02/2007
    Posts:1
  • Priced too high!
    Most people can not afford $11,000 for a scooter.
    I am going to sell electric scooters with top speed of 60MPH with regen brake. The bike has 3500w motor and Lithium power. If anyone interested I am selling the first batch of perordered bikes for $3495.00. Price will be going up somewhat on later orders. You can buy 3 for the same price as a Vectrix.
    Cheers,
    phil_randall@myfairpoint.net
    Rate this comment: 12345

    wothmore
    03/02/2008
    Posts:1
    • Re: Priced too high!
      What brand are the scooters you're selling?  Sounds like maybe Falcon or Zapino.
      Rate this comment: 12345

      rsteer
      06/05/2008
      Posts:1
  • not just battery
    Increasing energy efficiency of electric power-train systems .


    The key to sustainability is to reduce demand through efficiency and energy management. This also improves the financial viability of more emerging alternative sustainable energy solutions and, therefore, translates into fewer carbon emissions. Importantly, it also allows us to continue to grow while buying precious time to develop future generation energy systems that will deliver sustainable levels of carbon and greenhouse gas emissions.

    A Canadian company is a provider of modern permanent magnetic electromotive technology and power package custom solutions manufacturer to the Light Electric Vehicle (LEV) marketplace.


    Premium magnetic brushless motors, custom engineered electric motors and power electronic controller softgear applications and power system integration services for motor and controller manufacturing.


    Technology Offer

    Title: Efficient, high-performance electronic proprietary DC drives for light vehicles, on- and off-road vehicles, drive concepts, boats, compact gears for scooters, karts, quads, transport carts


    Abstract:

    Non-petrol engines almost always require a combination of batteries, hydrogen fuels and electric drives. A special patented design of a motor and a specific application-tuned controller developed by a Canadian company gives a very high power-to-weight ratio, supporting the transition to electronic drives in vehicles, or the change from petrol drives to electronic drives. The company is looking for partners interested in development and manufacturing of (light) electric vehicles.


    Description:

    A Canadian company is a leading company in the field of electric drive trains and charger/battery applications for industrial and leisure applications. The company's founders started participating in electric vehicle were from the beginning involved in all areas of personal transportation. Electric drives have been their main focus and the know-how has steadily evolved into a reliable, economical and test-proven system. During the last years the company has successfully installed electric go-kart systems in Europe, Asia and America, with ongoing projects from floor-cleaning machines to electric sailplanes and boats.


    The combination of motor and controller (with for example battery and charger, hydrogen fuel cell, etc.) is ideal for conversion of any kind of vehicle from petrol to electronic drives.


    The company has the generic and holistic-know how to replace existing engines with EPS
    Rate this comment: 12345

    jerryyjiang@...
    01/01/2009
    Posts:1
  • Recharging hassles....
    Recharging hassles will soon be a thing of the past with mobile phone companies announcing on a one-size-fits-all charger for every new handset. Key mobile phone industry players agreed to fit phones with the same power socket by 2012, The new interface will be a mini USB. In this age of electronic overload, you need to have all kinds of different accessories. Many people would consider getting a payday loan to make their technology hassles a little bit easier. For less than the amount of a payday loan, consumers could cut down the hassle considerably.  A move to a universal charging appliance would be a deft one, as it would certainly make things easier.  This way, you won’t have to get a...

    Check out this article: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/02/24/electronic-overload-payday-loan/
    Rate this comment: 12345

    ChristopherF
    03/04/2009
    Posts:1
  • [no subject]
    Of course batteries like this are not cheap, we’re talking many hundreds of dollars but for high end customs or any other high end bikes, these might be worth looking into. payday loans Vancouver
    Rate this comment: 12345

    helend22
    04/03/2009
    Posts:6
    Avg Rating:
    1/5
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