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A123's batteries use a nanostructured lithium-ion phosphate material, an advanced version of the type of battery used in laptops. The company says they're far safer than ordinary lithium-ion batteries -- which can catch fire or explode if overcharged, overheated, or damaged, hazards that would require expensive engineering to make them useable in vehicles. The new battery is safer because its cathode material, unlike conventional materials, does not release oxygen under these conditions; without oxygen, the liquid electrolyte will not combust. This safety advantage, along with the ability to pack a lot of power into a small, light package has caught the eye of several automakers, Fulop says.
This power could also have non-automotive applications in addition to power tools -- the company is attracting attention from large companies such as GE and Motorola, Fulop says. Although he cannot give specifics yet, he says "what is really exciting about this technology is the ability to do starting jet engines, the ability to do alternative drive trains, the ability to do medical device systems that you couldn't do before." Although he adds that "automotive is where we expect to have the majority of our business."
Even with the advantages of its batteries, however, A123 will have a challenge getting them into vehicles. The company enters a market already crowded with developers of hybrid-vehicle batteries. Menahem Anderman, president of Advanced Automotive Batteries, which organized this week's conference, was able to list 10 competitors, and said there are many more, many of them major Japanese companies with established connections to automakers.
Alternative approaches replace the battery with compressed air or a flywheel.
A123's new factory exploits automation and advances in nanotechnology.
Guest (Luca)
An electric-only car is far better than an hybrid.
How much weight it's possible to save?
How much capital and maintenance costs less than hybrid or miniSUV?
You don't need H, fuel cell, reformer, internal combustion motor.
Guest (Randy Holloman)
Simple: 1 horsepower = 800 watts. 130 hp in Prius = 104,000 watts x 8 hrs = 832,000 watt/hours. We cannot currently make a battery like that. The battery in my Prius can deliver about 10 minutes at 70 hp (approx.), so 117 watt/hours or 1/7000 the size necessary.
Guest (Nicolae)
You will never need 100% power for more than 10% of the time ... depending on the weight and driving style you need 100-250 wh (watts x hour) to drive a mile, so 60000 wh would be enough for 300-500 miles. And that kind of battery / capacitor could be around the corner :) http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html
Guest (Rich)
At this time, high battery cost justifies a heat engine for range. In the future, less expensive heat engines operating on renewable biodiesel or cellulosic ethanol will provide a distributed power source to back up the electric grid, and keep transportation running during electricity blackouts.
Guest (kruelhunter)
Or not - some entirely new and different technology may well emerge. See Larry Niven's stepping disks for a really outre solution to personal travel.
Guest (ANON)
Well i believe that hybrid is a better solution to our problem than electrical.
Some people will buy hybrids to save the enviroment, think of it like this
if we dont save our enviorment we are dead.
What you prefer use more money to save your life or not use your money and you wont see things in nature that we take for granted. and remmeber is not easy just to get out of this planet when its in ruin just because you dont want to spend 50% more
Guest (Mark Shapiro)
As hybrids take over, prices will drop
Improved battery technology such as this only make the hybrid model more compelling. It gives car designers more flexibility for everything from golf carts to locomotives.
I still wonder why we don't see more hybrid buses, taxis, and delivery vans, where they make the most economic sense.
Guest (M)
For a change it's good to see a Tech Rev article about a battery that's actually coming to market.
Guest (Lee Mc)
I have developed a new energy crop/process that producess 2x the ethanol as corn, <0.50$/gal,
and at Zero Fossil Fuel/Energy Inputs, I can't get a penny support from the govenment, its all Big Money that drives Gvrnmnt,
Guest (YaRight)
Totally New Energy Source (not)
oh really, so what does the machinery that plants and cultivates the corn crops run on? Methane from the farmers ***?
Guest
Yaright,
Instead of the smart answer, you could have asked Lee Mc to explain what he meant by his comments. Instead you drew a quick conclusion and did not learn anything new. When one talks too quickly or too much one only learns what one already knows.
Mr Miller shame on you, You remind me of Mr DeLaurean (Sic) and his 1980's stainless-steel car who instead of charging a fair price for the car commissioned some marketing guru to tell him how much he should charge. Of course he got the answer he wanted in the first place and charged way too much. We all remember what happened to him after he went under and was caught selling coke.
Inventing beeter batteries will not result in less expensive cars, because or short sightedness from Detroit and Washington.
Guest (Rich)
Totally New Energy Source--Tell us What it is
Totally New Energy Source--Tell us What it is
Guest (Patrick)
Nuclear power is the ultimate green power energy source: Low footprint, no greenhouse gas emissions, and economical. And a 40 year record of safety in the US.
We dont need anything new, nuclear energy will be the post-oil-age energy source.
Guest (dch)
Badge of Honor? No, gets them on the HOV lanes in some areas like Virginia with only one person.
Safer? Packs more power into a smaller area. Let me see, take that to the extreme. would I rather have one gallon of gas spilled in my back yard which is open, or one gallon of gas spilled in the confined bilge of my boat? Seems pretty obvious to me.
Guest (Mike)
Battery Packs in Electric Bikes
If these units are smaller and lighter, they may be more suitable for electric motor bikes where the weight to power ratio is more fully realized. If they can be charged overnight easily or through a Solar recharging panel of some type, then a low cost transportation model can be achieved. Design the bike with a power port for MP3 players, and 90 million college and high school students might sign up!
Re: Battery Packs in Electric Bikes
Bootleg ebike packs from China have proven great results on ebikes already.Rather than being excepted by lawmakers I found the oppisite happening after a record Volcano elevation climb of 10,005 feet in 3 hours that made a little press in Hawaii.Our Hawaii Governor has recently signd a bill that all bikes are to be human propellsion ONLY! so the converted DOT aproved emoped is the next plan to become legal again.
By the way ... our Govenor has a interest in her suporting family who owns Cutter Ford Dealerships that has State and County contracts.Who wants ebikes going up the volcano when you can get trucked to the top and coast down on a downhill tour for $100. Millions are made each year from several companies doing this.Stalling these batteries is all the big guys are doing until the oil companies figure out when to buy it all up and controll it at there whim.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui
http://community-2.webtv.net/SolarCraft/EVMOTORS/
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Guest (Solomon)
Hybrid Pricing
Just a side comment regarding keeping hybrid prices high as a badge of honor. Let me be very clear that while we have been looking at Hybrids as a replacement vehicle the prices and in particular the additional dealer markups are preventing the sale in our case. Its not a badge of honor its just bad business.
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Guest (John)
Hybrid Pricing
Most people would say they are environmentally conscientious. However, there is a price. We will pay a dollar more for electricity. We will stop using non-reuseable plastic shopping bags. We will own smaller cars, even a smaller SUV. But how many are willing to pay 50% more to save the environment? The Prius costs more than twice as much as the car I currently own, more than 20 years'worth of petrol!
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Guest (M)
Hybrid Pricing
I think they should charge whatever the market will bear and use the profit to invest in new plants. As suppy begins to meet demand, they can lower prices.
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Guest (Dell)
Hybrid Pricing
I keep hearing about non-reuseable plastic shopping bags. They are re-useable, and they are #2 plastic, which is recyclable.
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Guest (lola )
what?
i have been researching the prius and other hybrids on line and the prius in particular is with in my price range and i am 20 years old and have a part time job.... average cost for a prius is $22,000 and you would save on average $2,552.00 in gas a year, i did the calculations myself!
just think about it....
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Guest (stupidhead)
Hybrid savings math
If you think that a hybrid will save you $2,552/year in gas, you need to redo your calculations. Assuming that you drive 15,000 miles/year, and that you get an average of 25 mpg in a normal car vs. 50 mpg in a hybrid (the actual difference is much lower, with about 12 mpg difference between a hybrid Camry and a regular one), then you would save 300 gallons of gas per year. If gas costs an average of $3/gal., then you only save $900/year. This could make sense from an economic persepective if you plan to keep your car for a long time, but given the likely higher maintenance costs for hybrids (battery pack replacement, more expensive parts, etc.), it is unlikely that, from a purely economic perspective you will ever recoup the initial added cost of the vehicle unless gas prices continue to substantially escalate.
Reply
avalain
1 Comment
Re: Hybrid savings math
So it's just over a year since you posted about how you can't save money with a hybrid. Now there is a hybrid Camry which makes it easy to compare for pricing, mpg, etc, against a normal Camry. In this case, let's compare the base LE to the Hybrid. The LE has a city mpg rating of 29, vs 50 for the hybrid (at least on the website). So that's 21mpg better for the hybrid. The LE basic package costs $25,900 and the hybrid costs $32,000 (these are Canadian prices) which means the hybrid is 6,100 more expensive. Gas where I live is about $1.10/L, which is about $3.78/Gallon. So at 15,000 miles/year, the LE would take 517 gallons, costing $2150.72. The hybrid would take 300 gallons, costing $1248, or 902.72 less per year. Therefore, in the 7th year, everything actually staying equal, you would be saving money. And that's assuming that gas doesn't actually go UP in those 7 years.
As for the battery replacement. I just read an article that said Toyota has a 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and has not had to replace one in the US since the prius came out in 2000 or so. It is not something that dies in a year like your laptop battery.
Reply
Kevtyo
4 Comments
Re: Hybrid Pricing
Buying petroleum is simply fueling the war in Iraq by funding the Iraq. Using other clean sources will help us from the issues of ireversable global warming which can eventually kill us all-for example, melting the icecaps, the worlds two poles, destroying wildlife-animals and plants, eventually leading to our deathes. If everyone brought a hybrid and not any other car, the price would eventually fall. It's time to take action, and not sit around like everyone else, waiting for a cheap solution, or it's up to the future generation, which would mean another 20 years of pollutiong from us. There's just one word-
sustaniblity.
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Guest (Dan)
I agree
The whole article is great except for that paragraph and why include it in this article anyway? Sounds like a little payola to me. Get it into people’s minds that buying hybrid is a “badge of honor” like owning a monstrous SUV. A prize to be had and shown off to friends. An “I am better than you” vehicle. It’s actually quite genius, it’ll cost less to make the vehicle so they’ll make more profit and get bigger bonuses and we’ll all be conned into think we are spending money to save the environment.
A smart auto maker would put one out super cheap and make profit off of volume and establish themselves as the hybrid maker.
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Guest (Paul McLachlan)
Power density/good business
Hybrids make sence, but it is difficult for OEMs to make the transition. Future vehicles will commonly be series hybrids as the power transmission will become more efficient. However the key to creating efficient vehicles with high utility will be in reducing the mass to be moved. Currently less than 2% of the thermal energy from gasoline is actually used to take the driver of a vehicle across town. High power density is good business but it is likely that the Detroit OEMs will miss this boat and we will have different vehicles from different manufacturers in the future. See www.pivotalengine.com
for the ideal ICE for high power density hydrogen/gasoline or hydrogen/CNG vehicles.
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Guest (Anthony)
Dealer Mark-ups
It is unfortunate the dealers are marking up hybrids. Out here in California, Toyota forbid dealers charging anything beyond MSRP - period. Too bad Ford didn;t take a page out of their play book.
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Guest (JW)
Hybrid Pricing
I think Mr. Miller needs to get in touch with the average consumer. We like lower prices for vehicles, and really do not have any use for the so called badge of honor. The "average" consumer is much more basic, economy at a lower price.
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