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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Is GM's Volt Ready to Roll? .

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  gabrielg01
  

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  09/21/2008 04:08 PM

  Why they hate electric vehicles

  It is rumored that the oil industry has bought the patent rights to many technologies that could improve battery efficiency. The point is that they just sit on it, and thereby try to block further developments. Of course, don't expect this to show up in Exxon Mobile's public portfolio - it's probably done through a convoluted, multi-layered proxy system. It is easy to understand the oil industry's motivations.
  
  But there are several other gigantic/powerful constituencies, who have a vested interest in blocking electric cars. These would be the following:
  
  1) The regular auto maintenance industry.
  Today's cars require a lot of maintenance and spare parts. But electric cars are far simpler and inherently more robust and reliable. An electric car would require almost no mechanical maintenance. Then what would all those mechanics do? What would the UAW http://www.uaw.org do?
  
  2) The military-industrial complex.
  We currently need to have a gigantic military apparatus, so we can dominate the oil-rich Middle East. "Cheap oil" is paid for with hundreds of billions in military equipment (how cheap is that!). If the energy landscape fundamentally shifts away from oil, then our huge military build-up in the Middle East is unjustifiable anymore. Obviously, being stuck in a chronic oil-based energy crisis provides the financial sweet spot for the military-industrial complex.
  They don't want electric cars to wean us from oil. Why would they?
  
  3) The pro-Israel lobby.
  This lobby gets a ride on the backs of the military-industrial complex and the oil-industry. They keep us stuck in the Middle East, and anything that keeps America stuck there is good for Israel. Israel can use these crises to parade itself as the "strategic ally". If America was to leave the Middle East, that would be bad news for Israel. Go and ask an AIPAC http://www.aipac.org member if they want to get us off oil. Why would they?
  
  For all these constituencies shifting America's transportation system to electric cars is bad news. That's why they killed GM's electric car in the first place.
  

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    mkogrady
    

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    09/22/2008 07:09 PM

    Re: Why they hate electric vehicles

    It's in their best interest to buy up the competition. The simple thing is to really avoid all this mess and Telecommute.
    
    The most fuel efficient "PLUG-IN" vehicle we have is a laptop computer, cell phone and high speed internet connection. With them, we can work anywhere and save gas, reduce wear and tear on our cars, cut LOTS of emissions, reduce car insurance, cut road congestion and best of all about 60 million Americans can do it immediately! Add 15 million Canadians and we can all live on the natural resources we have in North America very easily!
    
    Of course, Telecommuting will also reduce all those easy tax dollars we pay at the pump too! The Oil Companies, Lobbyists AND Elected Officials don't want too much change too quickly!
    
    
    
    www.digitalfuel.org

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    wtfchuck
    

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    09/29/2008 04:22 PM

    Re: Why they hate electric vehicles

    Yes, it is rumored.  Just like the rumors that Big Oil has been buying patents from inventors for 100 mpg carburetors going back almost 100 years (http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp)
    
    What you fail to mention is that the Asian car makers have been taking over market share since the 70s and have just recently been building alternate fuel vehicles.  Is it more likely that the Automakers and Israeli-military-industrial complex has been controlling the Asians too or that the technology just wasn't there?  Not to mention the fact that the US market wanted SUVs in the 90's, not tiny, expensive, inefficient electric vehicles.

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    • 
      gabrielg01
      

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      09/30/2008 01:37 PM

      Re: Why they hate electric vehicles

      Except you forgot that all car makers are publicly traded companies, so anyone can be an "Asian car maker". My portfolio could be loaded with Toyota shares even though I am American. On Wall Street money has no nationality.
      
      Besides, the points you are making about the car market, actually support my points, not make them weaker. All the constituencies I mentioned are deeply interested in having Americans buy lots of huge, inefficient, gasoline based vehicles. And Asian car makers don't necessarily sell efficient vehicles. The Toyota Tundra gets 15mpg, which is about as bad as GM's Yukon Denali.

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    advill
    

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    09/29/2008 08:21 PM

    Re: Why they hate electric vehicles

    No Gabriel,  EV-1 was not a complot against EVs, simply they were not good enough to avoid guaranties, as simple as that.
    
    The cars were not complain with features that cars uses for avoid action class and other kind of legal stuff.
    
    The reason was simply a lawyer suggestion at that time.

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    • 
      gabrielg01
      

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      09/30/2008 01:26 PM

      Re: Why they hate electric vehicles

      GM's electric vehicles were owned mostly by environmental zealots, who had an almost religious attachment to these cars. If GM was concerned about lawsuits, they could have just given them the option of signing a "release form" that would obviate any lawsuits. But they scuttled the program, in spite of everything.

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  xformers
  

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  09/23/2008 04:34 PM

  It's Not Rocket Science

  I think one of the things that is missing here... With the Volt, Prius, other "versions" and this forum is that we do not need to make this more complicated than it needs to be.  Ford, GM, Toyota, etc., etc. have been making small, fuel efficient vehicles for years, generally sold in Europe and Asia.  Adapt them to our use.  Ok, sure, the "bumpers" need to be redesigned, get a first year engineering student to re-do it and move on. 
  
  Dang... as a manufacturer, I would dearly love to have that kind of a problem...  Hmm... let's see.  No one is buying my product because it get's bad fuel efficiency, BUT I make other products that get good / better...  Oh... right, don't sell the one's that people want.  ???
  
  As for electric.  Ahhh... the Prius.  48 mpg, no rechargable (plug in) battery option - "Can't be done".  Three "kids" in Chicago spend $3,000 and "modify" theirs... double the mileage AND get's plugged in.  And, GASP... they were not even from MIT!!! :-)  What the heck.  Oh, right... the company in Indiana that makes an "aftermarket" battery system for the car... Nope, use it and you loose your warranty.  What the heck?  Buy them out, use their technology and take it to the next level. 
  
  They are paying a good amount of money for their "in-house" engineering.  Maybe it is time to fire them and bring in "new" (young or older) blood and take a different look at it and get on with it.
  
  We are not trying to go to the moon...yet we were able to do that in 10 - 15 years...  Electric cars have been around for a LONG time, why not just work with what we know, get it out (the way we "humans" will use it) and take the next step, the next and so on and so forth.  We've been able to deal with new models from these companies each and every year for the last 50 years or so, why can't we expect it now?
  
  Almost 40 years ago a young, know nothing (know it all?), group of mechanical engineering students, worked at the University of New Mexico with GM on building a "steam powered" car.  Actually used the body of a 1966 Ford Mustang, that one of them had.  The project took a year and "worked".  Ok, not so well... it took upwards of 30 seconds to create the steam necessary to start up, first thing in the morning and the "experts" said the American Public will NEVER go for that.  Of course, let's forget about glow plugs in diesel engines.
  
  OR... A small midwest manufacturing company, making of all things "transformers", worked with Ford 15 years ago, or so on an electric car.  The outcome??  It was built, worked just fine and shelved.  No market for it.  Didn't the "Pet Rock" make it's "inventor" something like $5M???  If Ford had spent a few $ "selling" the car, "making" the market, we would not be having this discussion today.
  

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    mentaltragedy
    

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    10/15/2008 05:37 AM

    Re: It's Not Rocket Science

    yea sure, if it were as easy as you portray someone would have done it already.  its the same old conspiracy mongering that is pushed by cheap political films like the "who killed the electric car" film that are totally counterproductive because they inject ignorance into the discussion.
    
    those cars were not viable because of inadequate technology.  if someone could have made them for a profit it would have been done.  assuming improvements would come from nothing is just naive.  things like electronics have always driven battery development and we still aren't anywhere near cheap enough.  this conspiracy mongering creates unrealistic expectations and so gm can't even get credit for the volt.

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    • 
      evlover
      

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      07/27/2009 01:57 PM

      Re: It's Not Rocket Science

      You fail to mention that it would be impossible for anyone to make them for profit because Chevron was suing anyone who tried. And even still, the only NiMH batteries which are used now in the prius are only a fraction as powerful as the ones in the EV1 and RAV4-ev. For more information about electric vehicles, and the history of the suppression of NiMH batteries, check out the book "Two Cents Per Mile" by Nevres Cefo . You can also read portions of it on Amazon.com

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  asdar
  

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  09/29/2008 09:05 AM

  Have any of you even read GM's info on the Volt?

  You seem to be clueless. The 40 mile range is important because it covers over 80% of driving. The instant result of the 'average' driver adopting the Volt is a huge reduction in fuel usage.
  
  There is a 10 year warranty on the battery so drivers won't have to worry about that for what is currently the average life of a car. Part of the cost of the Volt is GM's warranty.
  
  The power for electrics will gradually increase power demand, but in studies the power companies say that charging EV's at night wouldn't require any new plants.
  
  The Volt is the first car that can change everything. The amount of power generation needed could easily change from gasoline to diesel, natural gas, ethanol or any other source.
  
  $40k is a lot of money for a small car, but it's the first so will naturally cost a bit more, it saves money after buying cuttin operating costs drastically and it reduces our oil consumption.
  
  Wake up, do some basic research.

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