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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Catching Spammers in the Act.

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  timbrady
  

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  07/15/2009 01:19 AM

  spam

  If ALL of us deleted ALL our spam messages, they would become unprofitable and might stop.  Don't buy anything, don't even look at them.  Just delete them.

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  • 
    jpdemers
    

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    07/15/2009 06:30 AM

    Re: spam

    When you send out millions of spam messages, it takes only a very small percentage of fools to make the enterprise profitable. I don't see the number of fools declining as time goes on.
    
    Perhaps if we had laws making the advertisers (who are easier to locate) liable for violating anti-spam statutes, we could discourage some of the abuses.  Charging a nominal voluntary fee for email (a tenth of a cent per message), and filters that block unpaid-for transmissions, would probably put an immediate end to the problem.

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    fiberman
    

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    07/17/2009 02:16 PM

    Re: spam

    Aren't you tired of subsidizing spammers? You know your cost of using the Internet pays for their usage of the majority of the bandwidth?

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  martwill38
  

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  07/15/2009 01:47 AM

  Don't delete -- fight back!

  Instead of simply deleting every spam message I forward it to SPAM@UCE.GOV, including the full header information - in Thunderbird etc., ctrl-U brings up the message source info, ctrl-A and ctrl-C selects all and copies, then in the forwarded message pane, ctrl-V pastes it.  Then click send and you're done.  It takes only a few seconds to do this, and the FTC will go and investigate the spammer.  If it is a phishing scam appearing to come from a financial institution, go to the real institution's web site (do not click on any links in the message!), find their fraudulent email reporting address and CC it to that address before sending.  Simple and effective.

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  nhjeff
  

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  07/15/2009 08:23 AM

  Why is spam so hard to stop?

  At the risk of showing how little I know, it seems to me that it would be reasonably easy to create a verification system for e-mail:
  
  1)  ISP's certify that they know the originator of all messages.  All mail from ISP's that forward e-mail without properly verifying the sender's id will be suspect.
  2)  For individual users, only a nominal number of e-mails would be allowed before the user becomes subject to greater scrutiny.
  3)  Large volume e-mailers will prove that they meet guidelines--such as easily removing one's address from their lists.  The mailer will pay the cost of certification.
  
  Spam programs will allow all mail from the system defined above to pass.  All other e-mail will be considered suspect, and legitimate e-mailers will quickly demand to be included in the secured system.
  
  Individual PC's that are taken over by bots would quickly be shut off under such a system.  Mass e-mailers will also monitor their own systems to assure that their volume is consistent with their business practices.  The biggest problems seem to be creating a secure transport network and verifying the identity of each member of that network.

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  • 
    carlhage
    

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    07/15/2009 04:40 PM

    Re: Why is spam so hard to stop?

    So the web crawler finds the IP of spammers-- so what? There is no problem finding spammers-- the problem is that there is nothing reasonable to be done about it. I see a constant attack on the servers I manage in logs, but I can't do anything about it other than hope the breakin doesn't work. We get tons of spam, mostly from hijacked computers, but does anyone help the victims or isolate these computers? There is a way to trace back to the source for payment, registration, bank login, etc., but there is noone to follow up at stop the spammers. The government, for the most part, is not punishing spammers, not dealing with compromised computers that have been hijacked, even resists passing laws against it, and so there is no process other than partly effective self-defense (firewall/filter). If you ask me the Libertarian ideal is a nice concept but doesn't work. It doesn't surprise me that there was a government denial of service attack-- it could be a rogue government (e.g. N Korea) but just as easily be a high school student in a bedroom somewhere.

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    carbonmind
    

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    07/19/2009 06:38 PM

    Re: Why is spam so hard to stop?

    The WSJournal Reports: "When it comes to identifying spam, two-thirds used the sender’s name as a gauge, followed by 45% who looked at subject lines and 22% who spot other “visual indicators.” About 3% relied on the time a message was sent to identify whether or not it’s legitimate. So what’s driving them to click on Cialis offers or fake Michael Jackson photos? About 17% said it was a mistake. Twelve percent were interested in the product or service, and 13% don’t know why they acted on the message. Six percent “wanted to see what would happen.”
    
    - spam is so cheap to send, and people are gullible - unless we use closed-loop environments for messaging we are going to be stuck with spam for a long time. Migrating off the web and onto your cellphone may mitigate the volume, i.e. acceptance of only "known" numbers and addresses - but so long as people keep opening and responding to spam, it will continue.
    
    BTW: This particular research doesn't even mention that spammers don't all scrape or harvest their addresses from the web, they create them on the fly. Major ISPs create "honeypot" or decoy email addresses to catch spammers and receive spam almost within the hour at these fictitious addresses!
    

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  reid
  

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  07/15/2009 11:13 AM

  Suggested Solution

  We need to change the economics of e-mail. Here's a suggestion: Create an alternate e-mail system. In order to participate, you have to register and pre-fund an account. The amount could be modest, say $5 or $10. Then every time you send an e-mail message, you pay a penny out of your account. Every time your receive a message, the sender's penny is deposited into your account. If you reply, the penny goes back. Suddenly spam is no longer profitable.

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    a3an
    

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    07/15/2009 08:29 PM

    Re: Suggested Solution

    I guess one does not need an ISP to send emails. However, your idea to fight this with weapons of economy is interesting.  How about defining an mailing system based on mail notifications. Such a system would tell you got mail and send the header plus an Internet address where to pick-up the actual contents. With such a system one would know the originating system, but foremost the originator has to provide for resources to send the actual contents when you ask for it. This will be costlier than just dumping a million emails to the net at little or no cost. 

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    fiberman
    

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    07/16/2009 02:49 PM

    Change the economics

    The idea of charging a small amount per email is the only easy solution. As long as a spammer can send all the email they want for no cost, we'll be facing this problem. And charging a penny (or even less) an email is easy to implement.
    Unfortunately, the suppliers of hardware and software to the Internet and the suppliers of the backbone connections will fight you on this - they make their money supplying products and services that make this possible, and cutting spam would adversely affect their revenue for years!
    You know, they're like the bankers that got us in this financial mess and the healthcare companies who profit from our illnesses; they only care about the profit, not the problems they cause.
    Second solution - a secure email system that only allows authenticated emails - not from the bastards that use my email for spamming which fills my inbox with undeliverables every few months, or the ones who sent me over 1,000 emails last week because I caught and stopped one scam!
    Come on, industry, just once do something because it's right, not just to make a buck!!

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    • 
      ru4sure
      

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      07/16/2009 08:15 PM

      Re: Change the economics

      The answer is simple. Use gmail by google

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      • 
        vaniderstine
        

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        07/30/2009 11:06 PM

        Re: Change the economics

        Masking the problem does not solve it.   Just because GMail doesn't deliver 100 spam messages/day into your inbox doesn't mean that they weren't sent to you.

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