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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Battery Breakthrough?.

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  joe_azona
  

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  01/23/2007 11:03 PM

  electric cars

  Interesting topic and conversation. I was just reading about the GM EV1 program and how they destroyed all the the vehichles that were being driven. I use to see them here in Scottsdale and all of the sudden they were gone. After a bit of research, it reeks of big oil & auto companies squashing innovation because it is a threat to their bottom line. Now it seems that the bottom line is the ability to keep our air clean and our future free of global warming. Since this forum seems to be of an educated mind-set, I was hoping I could know your thoughts. Cheers..

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  • 
    akay
    

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    01/24/2007 12:01 AM

    Re: electric cars

    Joe:
    
    Electric vehicles alone can’t preserve us from a climate disaster, as long as electricity is produced by burning coal. However, the technology to produce clean electricity at a competitive price exists. With concentrated solar power (CSP) the entire primary energy consumption of North-America could be covered by only a fraction of the available desert areas:
    http://www.ez2c.de/ml/solar_land_area
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_Solar_Power 
    
    CSP plants in California have been working reliably for 20 years and produced more electricity than all photovoltaic panels combined. Each km2 of desert receives corresponding to 1.5 million barrels of oil annually, or a layer 24 cm deep.  Already now “solar fuel” can compete with oil at 50$/barrel.
    http://www.trecers.net/index.html
    http://www.trecers.net/downloads/GCREADER.pdf
    
    European governments have started to invest in clean, sustainable energy, while the Bush administration is still wasting your money to defend black oil. In order to tackle climate change and fossil fuel depletion, we need an immediate (inter)national program, comparable in its dimensions to the Apollo project. The suffering automobile industry could find an honorable and profitable enterprise in building thousands of km2 of thermal solar power plants from steel and glass. An investment that would provide us and our children with clean energy as long as the sun shines on earth…
    http://www.trec-uk.org.uk/index.htm

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    • 
      Gypsy_EV
      

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      01/24/2007 01:08 PM

      Re: electric cars

      Very well said.   Stopping Global warming should be our # 1, 2 and 3 priority.  If we could get away from using so much oil many of our other problems would take care of themselves.
      Some advances in solar panels make them cost effective for use on private homes.  The holy grail of $1 per watt is in sight and at that point a private setup would pay for itself in 5 years. 

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    • 
      madmarty
      

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      01/27/2007 01:27 PM

      Re: electric cars

      Do you realize what you sound like when you are driven to try and blame George Bush for every problem? I don't like practically anything he does but get real and stop trying to lay the blame for every problem at his feet. He has been President for 6 years. Any CSP plant that is not operating today is not his fault. How long do you think it takes to come up with the plan, find and educate investors and secure financing, find a location, buy the land (or negotiate leases,) design, and build a large CSP plant. Come on. We have many problems but they all did not start 6 years ago. 60 years ago? Who knows. If you do not like the president, then give some money to somebody, campaign for them, be sure and vote for them (unlike all the celebrities that mouth off and oops forget to register) and your problem is solved. (If a few other people agree with you)

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      • 
        TJGeezer
        

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        01/27/2007 09:39 PM

        Re: electric cars

        You're right. We're all acting like Bush is responsible for executive dept. agencies like the EPA distorting data and sitting for years on reports that disagree with the Republican agenda and then, when the Dems got into a majority in congress, actually shredding those reports and the supporting data that came with them. I mean, it's not as if Bush didn't pay for all that research, not the American people. Oh, wait - the American people DID pay for that research. But never mind. We shouldn't blame Bush for what his agencies do. Six years is not NEARLY long enough to initiate new and actually innovative programs. Shame on us.

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          Gypsy_EV
          

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          01/29/2007 10:17 AM

          Re: electric cars

          Yes, madmarty is right.  We can't blame George, after all he did what any Oil Executive would do.  We can however blame anyone that did not have the insight to see that and voted for him.  The tree huggers are being proven correct and it is hard for the neo-right-wingers to admit they were wrong.  They wanted so much to believe that it is OK to drive gas hog Suuu-Veee's and ignore the environment because Rapture was coming.  But wait, that was last June.  Still here?    

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          • 
            Papiscott
            

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            02/02/2007 12:04 PM

            Re: electric cars

            Let’s not forget that it was the tree huggers that killed the nuclear industry.  Wind and Solar are great but have no where near the energy density required to provide us the quality of life we (not to mention the rest of the world) want to enjoy.  If we had been building nuclear plants as opposed coal and natural gas plants it would make more of a difference than if all the cars on the planet were removed.   Tree huggers are a major part of the problem!

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            • 
              Gypsy_EV
              

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              02/02/2007 01:39 PM

              Re: electric cars

              I don't think the small minority of tree huggers could kill the nuclear industry, a couple of accidents along with disposing of the waste and quantity of resources available did.  Texas has enough wind power to power the nation and a small portion of the California Desert has enough solar power to power the country.  Bush spent enough money on Iraq to build a large number of Wind Generators and Solar collectors (much more cost effective than PV's).  I believe it is better to collect solar energy than dump nuclear waste.  

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              • 
                Gypsy_EV
                

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                02/04/2007 01:13 PM

                Re: electric cars

                I need to make a correction.  According to the study completed by the Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratory, North Dakota could supply 1/4 the U.S. electricity demand.  Texas is slightly less.  Transmission capacity would not allow this however.  We would have needed to expand the clean air act starting in late 1970's when scientists first realized global warming was a problem.  Instead the newly elected president in 1981 cut funding, cut CAFE standards and removed the solar panels from the white house.  It is in all likely hood it is too late to stop the caps from melting but that does not mean we bury our heads in the sand.   Developing products  like this ultracap making EV’s feasible would be a start.

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                • 
                  spinfusion
                  

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                  04/08/2007 12:36 PM

                  Global warming is balmy

                  If you bury your head in the sand while the caps melt, won't you get water up your nose?
                  
                  I say, let the place warm up. Then we can clone the dinosaurs, discover the cancer-saving properties of pre-Cambrian vegetation, and move to Antarctica to play checkers with Cthulhu.
                  
                  Sorry, that was off-topic: I am fully confident in the ability of this Jew to produce a working flux-capacitator.
                  
                  Ran: ReAd the meSSage backWards using the secret IlluminAti decoDer on a $1 biLl tO find my meSsagE to youR mom.

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                  • 
                    bkshilo
                    

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                    11/05/2007 02:29 PM

                    Re: Global warming is balmy

                    Good one, brutha!

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                • 
                  Clouseau2
                  

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                  09/04/2007 04:21 PM

                  Re: Re: electric cars

                  "Transmission capacity would not allow this, however"
                  
                  $500 billion would buy a LOT of transmission capacity.  Too bad it's been flushed down an Iraqi toilet.

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