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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Battery Breakthrough?.

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  GaryB
  

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  01/23/2007 03:35 PM

  Batteries and energy policy

  This sadly points out another of the many areas where our current president and administration have utterly failed. One of the most effective ways to win the “war on terror” is to cut the terrorist's funds.  Most of the terror money comes directly or indirectly from oil.  Getting off oil really means to stop using oil for transportation.  Developing a good battery would do exactly this.
  
  We should be in about year 4 of a huge federal research effort to develop alternate sources of energy storage (energy generation is an easier problem, lots of possibilities: solar, wind, geothermal, nuclear…).  What is lacking are good ways to store energy.  We need this just from looking at the war on terror, the fact that it also would solve other pressing problems such as climate change, geopolitical instability of oil sources, and the end of cheap oil (not end of oil, but end of cheap oil extraction) are just further incentives.
  
  Where is the “do or die” pull out all the stops national emergency research program(s) to address this?  Bush’s biography can be summed up: “Asleep at the wheel”.

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  • 
    naturlm
    

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    01/23/2007 05:23 PM

    Re: Batteries and energy policy

    I agree completely.  Bush was smart enough to work with Carl Rove to get himself elected via relgious right and most of the conservatives in corporate business.  What he forgot about is that the country belongs to Joe Sixpack, and now after 6 years, Joe Sixpack has finally educated himself about the presidents weaknesses.  I am ashamed the European Community figured him out correctly in the beginning, ie. not a statesman like his father, who actually put his life on the line in a war, but more of a Texas big ego cowboy, who felt presidential and military power was the answer to all the problems of the world.  I never met a Texan who didn't have trouble controlling his big state ego.  What a shame to have that ego in our lands highest public office ? If offered the choice, I will never again vote for a presidential candidate who has not been active on our militarys front lines, and understands from that experience, military strengths and weaknesses in carrying out American foreign policy.  Geez, I miss those days of Ike in the 50's.  But....without control of congress I am hoping Prez Bush will finally get a few things right in next couple of years. 
    
    I believe in using tax incentives sparingly and wisely.  Battery research and development incentives I would strongly support, ethanol incentives I would not support (and I was raised on a midwest farm).  Well, rethinking that, if Detroit would ever increase the compression ratio to effectively make use of the high octane number in ethanol, and thereby get ethanols effeciency improved, I might support it.  Flex vehicles are a joke, dropped on the American public by congressional commitee chairs from Detroit and Houston in my opinion ?  Well OK, ethanol is greener and safer than the now discontinued former high octane additives. 
    
    I think batteries have a better future for a green automotive energy source than fuel cells.  Why spend all the $ to set up hydrogen storage and distribution systems when you already have the needed electricty destribution systems almost ready and now in place ? 
    
    Nuclear is only a short term answer, but it may be the only short term answer we have if we want to get off oil in a really major way.
    
    I voted for and strongly supported John Kennedy in my youth, but now believe we should have stopped funding NASA years ago, and used those monies to work on the  real problems present here on earth.  There should be time in the future, after we get this worlds health, terrorism, wars, global warming etc. things taken care of here, to once again satisfy human curiosity by exploring the universe and space.
    
    Re the capacitor claims by this small company, hope they have something, but at this point I doubt it.  I tend to agree there may be a significant weakness based the analysis of the patent provided earlier re negative temperature effects.  If they had the problem solved, it needed to be in the patent.  But this is not an area where I have any technical expertise......
    
    Does anyone know a way I could invest a few dollars in 123A ?  I once had a college class in electrochemistry, maybe thats one reason their approach seems more appealing ?

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    • 
      texmechs
      

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      01/23/2007 07:22 PM

      Re: Batteries and energy policy

      First things first, pull your head out.  Not everything is about politics, and the more people like you try to make it about politics, the more screwed up it gets.  Besides that, you're obviously not educated enough to speak on the subject.
      
      I find the number of naysaysers who attack something are directly related to the importance of a development, and usually an indicator of how possible something is.  I hope this is a viable product, and will suspend my disbelief until such time as this company produces something.
      
      I'm constantly reminded of the lack of foresight when I read the Western Union quote to Alexander Graham Bell concerning the telephone.... 
      
      "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." --Western Union internal memo, 1876.

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      • 
        Gypsy_EV
        

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        01/24/2007 12:57 PM

        Re: Batteries and energy policy

        naturlm was correct in the assessment of politics becoming involved in technology advancement.  Part of the reason for the EV-1 getting killed was the administration pushing fuel cells.  That was a smoke screen to get attention away from a very good EV.  It was interesting that Pres. Bush mentioned getting America off foreign oil when he pushed and got a huge tax incentive passed to drive Gas Hog Suu-Veeee's.  A much larger incentive than the one to drive Hybrids.
          The Eestor does sound too good to be true but we should only have a short time to wait and find out.  I also hope it works. 
        

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    • 
      gh
      

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      01/23/2007 07:32 PM

      Re: Batteries and energy policy

      You make a lot of good points.  I have some corrections/clarifications:
      
      • Although G.W. Bush was governor of TX, and acts like a Texan, it is just that - an act - he grew up and went to college in New England
      
      • NASA projects led to crucial improvements in solar cells, fuel cells, and many other technologies; they have more than paid back what was invested
      
      • 123A is a private company; contact them via
             http://www.a123systems.com/html/contact.html
         if you want to invest.

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    • 
      johnsawyercjs
      

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      02/12/2007 12:10 AM

      Re: Batteries and energy policy

      naturlm says he believes "we should have stopped funding NASA years ago, and used those monies to work on the real problems present here on earth.  There should be time in the future, after we get this worlds health, terrorism, wars, global warming etc. things taken care of here, to once again satisfy human curiosity by exploring the universe and space."
      
      Facts are:
      
      - NASA gets pennies compared the dollars that other government organizations get and waste, and NASA returns more on the money it spends, than many of those others.  NASA works in many scientific areas that most people know nothing about--they don't just launch spacecraft, probes, etc., but even the spacecraft and probes contribute to knowledge that can be applied to Earth.
      
      - Exactly when in the future do you believe that we'll "get this worlds health, terrorism, wars, global warming etc. things taken care of"?  If we waited till then to fund NASA, NASA would never get funded, especially when you throw in "etc".  Besides, you don't wait to satisfy human curiosity as basic as that which NASA explores.
      
      - Why single out NASA?  Why not cut off funding for a lot of other, more expensive, less productive programs until we get all our problems straightened out?

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    • 
      DanBiwee
      

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      05/02/2008 01:43 AM

      Re: remarks on nukes

      First I want to mention that I really hope that EEStor isn't vapor, since nuclear power wasn't the topic of this blog.
      Tyler, I want you to investigate the real cost of nuclear power.   What exactly does it cost to store radioactive material (practically) forever?   By my calculations, that’s quite a bit more than any other form of energy.  This kind of short sightedness will mortgage our nations future and make a very few people really rich.

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  • 
    testing
    

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    01/24/2007 11:39 AM

    Re: Batteries and energy policy

    Agrree, mostly.
    
    But the crash program should have begun about 34 years ago, not 4 years ago...  ;-b

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      nesdon
      

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      01/24/2007 02:27 PM

      Re: Batteries and energy policy

      It's not that it wasn't started 30 years ago, it's that it was ended 27 years ago. Look at Carter's speech: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_energy.html
      
      He even installed photovoltaic panels on the white house, which Reagan had removed. Clinton proposed a similar and much more explicit energy policy early in his first term. Imagine where we would be if Carter had been listened too. He has clearly been vindicated.

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    • 
      madmarty
      

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      01/27/2007 01:03 PM

      Re: Batteries and energy policy

      Yeah, but then they couldn't blame George. And they have an overriding need to do that.

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      • 
        TJGeezer
        

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        01/27/2007 08:48 PM

        Re: Batteries and energy policy

        You're right. Thank everybody's imaginary friend in the sky that we have an anti-science, data-hiding, Incurious George presidunce to blame. That is SO much more important than getting research done that might help make us less dependent on the Bush family's Saudi cronies.

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    kestrel19
    

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    01/25/2007 02:26 PM

    Re: Batteries and energy policy

    State of the Union, Bush proposed Congress authorize doubling the US strategic reserve.  IIRC, that will be to two billion barrels.  I think that speaks volumes.

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      TJGeezer
      

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      01/27/2007 08:52 PM

      Re: Batteries and energy policy

      Wow. A government buy that large will make a really nice windfall subsidy for the oil industry. It'll help prop prices up, too. Wait - wasn't one purpose of that reserve to help discourage price run-ups like what we've just gone through?

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    bkshilo
    

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    11/05/2007 02:34 PM

    Re: Batteries and energy policy

    Such views are idiotic.  The President is not a "King" who can shape things to his will.
    
    Why don't we have clean nuclear fusion??
    
    I know, let's blame it all on Dubbya!  If he hadn't invaded Iraq, all the worlds' ills would be solved!
    
    Grow up.

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