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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Battery Breakthrough?.

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  afjerry
  

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  10/16/2007 06:48 PM

  2 New Eestor Update - Sounds Encouraging

  Eestor has filed a new patent on their purification process for barium titanate powder that was certified back in Jan..
  http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20070148065.html
  
  Kleiner, Perkins indirectly validates eestor claims (From my research I think Joy got the liters mixed up with Kilogram as 100 kg not liters for Lithium Ion "Li Ion") - now the timeframe is interesting as it does not support eestor starting next year to deliver but it does support they believe in what they are doing and the timeframe they are talking about could be at mass distribution levels after working out all of the tech issues along the way.
  
  http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9798043-7.html?tag=tb
  
  The key stumbling block to plug-in hybrid cars are electric vehicles is batteries. But Joy is again optimistic there.
  
  "There's a range of new chemistries coming so that you can imagine, say five to ten years from now, instead of 100 watt-hours per liter we're at today, that a break-out company will have a 500 or thousand watt-hours--a five to 10 times (increase in) the energy density," he said.

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  • 
    CapacitorMan
    

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    10/18/2007 08:36 AM

    Re: 2 New Eestor Update - Sounds Encouraging

    Sorry, but there are a couple key errors here:
    
    1. That is a published application, not a patent. The PTO has not ruled on it yet. All applications are now published about a year after filing.
    
    2. The process that they "certified" last year was for purifying Barium Nitrate. That is one of the precursers for the Barium Titanate that you see in the application.
    
    3. The patent application discusses making a dielectric, not purifying a material.
    
    As you can see from that, there are many more steps before BN becomes BT and even more before they have a capacitor.
    
    AND, most important, their next milestone is to verify the permittivity, WHICH THEY HAVE NOT YET DONE and cannot do, until they have made and tested the dielectric.  We all hope that they not only do that, but verify it is stable with the high voltage they need. Any currently available BT dielectric with that permittivity will drop about 75%, sometimes more with a couple hundred volts over the 13 micron thickness they need. The ability to withstand 3000 volts is the surprising and breakthrough parameter.

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    • 
      ancient_nerd
      

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      10/19/2007 02:04 AM

      Re: 2 New Eestor Update - Sounds Encouraging

      Edge effects should be quite a challenge too.

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  VanIsle
  

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  10/24/2007 05:29 PM

  Cap Mans views

  I want to clarify your stand on EESOR's technology. I read your posting in Clean Break:
  by CapacitorMan on Sat 20 Jan 2007 02:04 PM EST  "Any neutral knowledgable person, beyond reproach, would label the EEStor capacitor for what it probably is, a vehicle to make at best a poor investment, at worst a scheme to make dishonest people rich. "
  Yet in above postings in TechReview you say you own shares in Zenn. What has happened to change your view, or are you just hedging your bets?

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  • 
    CapacitorMan
    

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    10/25/2007 09:12 AM

    Re: Cap Mans views

    Good point.
    
    I owned shares in Zenn before they announced their funding of EEStor. I wrote the officers of Zenn with a detailed report, expressing my concern.
    
    And, I may have been a little harsh. It may be that EEStor simply did not know of the potential problems, they are not obvious.
    
    It is still curious though, things don't add up. The recent patent was the third configuration of a dielectric, they have not yet measured the permittivity; etc, etc.
    
    Furthermore, I think Zenn itself is a good company. There are other ways to increase thier range and speed, and that will improve the stock value.

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    • 
      geologist
      

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      10/25/2007 03:10 PM

      Re: Cap Mans views

      Forgive my ignorance, but in a patent application, don't they require a WORKING prototype?

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      • 
        CapacitorMan
        

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        10/25/2007 10:42 PM

        Re: Cap Mans views

        No.
        
        The patent office does not require a prototype or any model. That requirement stopped in the early 1900's. Hence, there are patents on carburetors that get 100 mpg, and other "impossible" items.
        
        
        
        
        
        

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• 
  kd4ukex
  

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  10/29/2007 03:12 PM

  Breakthrough ???

  On
  0/08/07 I asked for further info on the roll-out of EEStors to the Zenn co . I have October 29th 2007 . President Weir said the " System " would be ramped out in this year . Not much time left .
  If the public is being " Stroked " on this deal its a sad commentary for American scientists . I even have the feeling that some of the contributors to these articles are Shills . Just leading us down the garden path .
  Redemtion : Article in popular Magazine . The DOD is offering a $1,000,000.00 Prize to someone who comes up with a wearable power supply that will produce 20W average power continuously for 96 hours while weighing less than 4 kilograms
  So what say you Pres . Weir ??  The web site is ;www.dod.mil/ddre/prize/         kd4ukex

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  • 
    ricinro
    

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    11/01/2007 03:51 PM

    Re: Breakthrough ???

    eestor announced a purity goal earlier this year.  I think they grossly underestimated how long it takes to make a production line not to mention working out performance issues with the product that would (or will, is?) roll down that line.  Capacitorman is correct that a prototype that performs as predicted is the next bit of information that is needed otherwise this likely is a scam.  No sane person would ever start a production line without a working prototype.  I can understand secrecy because of a military dual use scenario and I think that "letting the device speak for itself" is also great.  But announcing production without mentioning a working prototype is bizarre.

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    • 
      kd4ukex
      

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      11/19/2007 10:49 AM

      Re: Breakthrough ???

      By the " Clock on my wrist " I copy the 18TH of November . That leaves 1-1/2 months to the end of this year .
      Dr. Weir made the statement that the EEStors system would be incorporated in the Canadian based electric  cars .. Before the end of this year .  Once again I hope this is not a hugh push to rip off the investors .And give hope to a lot of people reading this text , hoping for that star in the sky .
        If it is a hoax I hope they fry his hind side !
      But I am wishing it is not .
        Give us a clue Dr. Weir  .. Is it ? Or isnt' it ??  Throw us a line ....
      KD4UKEX

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