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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Battery Breakthrough?.

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  bschmidt613
  

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  09/04/2007 09:53 AM

  Zenn car insurance

  I just checked with Geico and they will NOT insure the Zenn electric car except for use on a golf course.  I will not buy one under that restriction! So the discussion of batteries seems like a moot point for now.

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  Le Petomane
  

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  09/10/2007 04:28 PM

  The Earth is Flat

  Simply amazing. The naysayers, especially ones with advanced degrees and experience in the fields related to EEStor technology, make me want to weep. You come up with elaborate responses to prove that the EEStor technology will never work, yet you don't really know what they have discovered or created. Why waste such bright minds on debunking something before you have all the information.
  
  It's like arguing with me about what I have in a small box. I say it's lion and you tell me that's impossible, the box is too small. It's a small ceramic figurine of a lion. I wasn't lying, you just didn't have enough information to disbelieve me.
  
  Of all these posts, there was one that smelled like it might be true. EEStor's site went down about the same time that news was being released about the breakthrough's and installation of rail guns on naval ships. They had to go on ships because the capacitors were so large. Then, a possible breakthrough in size and storage rears up. Maybe that makes it possible to build smaller rail guns, portable, maybe even hand held. Serious warfare advantage. Serious security risks. Would you want Billy-Bob and his white supremest buddies toting around a rail gun, or even worse, Ahmed Sherif Mohamed and his cell of virgin Muslims.
  
  I saw the same thing happen in 2003 when personal VTOL for the masses was very close. Companies disapeared, changed names, toned down their info, Web Sites changed, etc. Almost overnight.
  
  I'm not saying it's true, because I just don't have enough information.
  
  Le Petomane

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    CapacitorMan
    

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    09/11/2007 10:19 AM

    Re: The Earth is Flat

    You have some good points.
    
    However, when someone raises a (perceived) outlandish claim, are those of us with a background to understand the problems supposed to keep quiet? Who will rein in the charletons, or do we let innocent people invest without adequate information?

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      Le Petomane
      

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      09/16/2007 01:49 AM

      Re: The Earth is Flat

      Capman, no, I don't think knowledgeable people should keep quiet. That benefits no one. I was addressing the posts that basically begin with 'IMPOSSIBLE, A SCAM, etc.' without considering the knowledge that is not being told.
      
      A123, or the M1 was kept very secretive and under the radar, yet they proved to have something.
      
      BY all means, debate, question, question, and question some more. But also take in what we do know. EEStor has been passing each milestone with verified, third-party, oversight. They are on to something and what kind of stupidity would it take to show all of their cards. There is also the realm of nano-tech, but more on that below.
      
      I wasn't kidding about the use of super-capacitors being the key to portable rail-guns, and that would be a huge military advantage. The government, especially our current administration, has historically shown that they place more value on a military advantage over oil, global warming, economic and medical benefits to civilians.
      
      I'm not an X-Files nut seeing conspiracy around every corner (well, not completely), but I'm not naive either.
      
      One last question/note. Have you heard or read Ray Kurzwell's 'The Singularity'? If scientific datum and facts are so important-and they are-then Kurzwell has laid out some astonishing claims that are highly backed up. On of the most important things in the coming breakthroughs all require nano-tech that is becoming a reality. I'm not a scientist, and I have only been able to make it 1/3rd of the way through his book, but it's a masterpiece.
      
      Keep the dialouge flowing.

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        CapacitorMan
        

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        09/17/2007 01:21 PM

        Re: The Earth is Flat

        Thanks for the lead, I had heard of that book, I will look it up.
        
        My main concern with the EEStor thing is that of the six "showstoppers" the easiest one for Zenn and EESTor to comment on would be the voltage effect on permittivity. In every known instance of dielectrics in that region, the cap will drop to 10%. The patent is silent on that aspect, and their next milestone is only to measure it, not its behaviour with voltage. (which is 20 times higher then usual)
        
        Thier earlier milestone was equally trivial. To get a lab to analyze Barium Nitrate, which is available by the ton. Why are they bothering to make it? There are 20 or more steps beyond that to making the device. Shouldn't they get to their new aspects, which is 10 steps away yet.
        
        I am a stockholder in Zenn, and was invited by them to state my concerns, which I did. I did not get a reply, which means what, I wonder?
        
        Oh, well, a few months may tell.

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          Le Petomane
          

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          09/19/2007 05:57 PM

          Re: The Earth is Flat

          Thanks, that makes sense. But wasn't the purity of the Barium the key point? I may be wrong.
          
          BTW, the full name of that book is 'The Singularity is Near, by Ray Kurzwell". I guarantee you'll enjoy it

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  afjerry
  

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  09/11/2007 09:47 PM

  Official Response from Zenn on delay of eestor

  If you read between the lines, development is done, so they must have a prototype (in fact sounds like a long time now), it looks like this is the real deal, now can they commercialize it? So in my opinion this is where Kleiner Perkins and Zenn came in after they prove the prototype and they took on the risk of commercializing  it's not easy to put together a 1,000 layers of defect free   material, hundred of thousands of untracapacitors a day, but we see in a few months.
  
  Dear Mr. Jerry,
  
  There has been no official delay communicated directly to ZENN Motor
  Company.  This particular is in fact misleading in its story title.
  EEStor is quoted as stating that the EESU is on schedule for delivery
  to
  ZMC within the next ten months.  That is not to say that they won't
  deliver before then - merely announcing the possibility that additional
  time may be required in the commercialization phase - not development
  time of the ultracapacitor.
  
  The next milestone involves permittivity testing and no official 'due
  date' has been announced.
  
  Please feel free to contact me should you have any additional questions
  or concerns.
  
  Catherine Scrimgeour
  Public Affairs Specialist
  ZENN Motor Company
  Tel: 416.535.8395 x 201
  Fax: 416.535.4043
  www.ZENNcars.com

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    CapacitorMan
    

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    09/12/2007 08:43 AM

    Re: Official Response from Zenn on delay of eestor

    Good work, Mr Jerry.
    
    Curious though, I read something else "between the lines"  If they had a prototype, the permittivity would already have been measured, it takes only seconds.
    
    That is the key parameter, and does it or does it not deteriorate when they put the high voltage on.
    
    Why can't they answer that very simple question? I asked it a year ago, and they were mute.

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    ricinro
    

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    09/30/2007 02:09 PM

    Re: Official Response from Zenn on delay of eestor

    Does this response from this spokeswoman require clarification?  The device or capacitor may refer to a device in the lab.  I am not sure that the device has actually been prototyped.  This is the problem of a secret in that the hopeful read this as a sign of something but it was deliberately stated vaguely thus it still is likely a secret.

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  Le Petomane
  

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  09/19/2007 06:11 PM

  Rail gun technology has made EEStor go stealthy

  Rail guns require huge capacitors and are only deployed, recently, on military ships. EEStor technology could potentially put a rail gun on a tank, mobile infantry unit, or smaller platforms. Think about what the DoD would do if they could put a device on a tank/truck that could shoot small payloads at 13,000 miles p/hour. Or, from a plane or drone. They would covet the technology and bury it for as long as they could from public commercialization.
  
  No, my name is not Fox Mulder and this is just a guess. Maybe wrong, maybe not, but worth considering.
  
  Maybe the only reason they can deploy them on ships is Newton's law, for every action there is....

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