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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article Battery Breakthrough?.

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  kalexander
  

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  02/27/2007 03:04 AM

  Funny thing, but...

  I noticed that the Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers web site does not mention EEStor. Odd, as their involvement has been mentioned in the press since September of 2005. See http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/dealflow/archives/2005/09/kleiner_perkins_1.html
  The publicity shunning thing seems to have been going on since same time last year.
  http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html
  Now their web site is "under construction".
  Maybe I've missed something, but it seems to me if Kleiner Perkins put money in, they'd have listed it amongst their deals, but you can't even find mention of EEStor in their site's search engine. Hmmmm...

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  realskills68
  

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  03/01/2007 12:17 AM

  It is so sad to see so much time...

  tearing apart what this company is trying to do. Maybe if as much effort was put into helping to insure that it is a success, then we all would have a better place to live. We could let the Middle East nations live their lives the way they want without us interfering because we want their oil and stop spending our tax dollars for unnecessary wars.
  
  Who gives a dime if EESTOR's CEO becomes the next Bill Gates? I wouldn't as long as I knew that future generations of my offspring might have a better world to live in.
  
  I only wish I was as smart as some of the people who have tried to tear this apart on this blog. I'd call him up and offer my services - for free. What greater legacy could one have than to have particpated, success or failure, in something that has so much potential to improve the lives of everyone on the entire planet.
  
  Stop telling us what he's done wrong. Tell him how to do it right!
  
  Bill - A typical Texan with a big ego.

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  afjerry
  

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  03/05/2007 09:33 PM

  5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

  1) Kleiner Perkins - Two other ventures wish to remain “stealth”.
  http://www.kpcb.com/news/articles/2006_02_16a.html
  
  A- We know the Kleiner Perkins has invested in EEstor but you can not find it on their WEB Site.
  B- Patents clearly indicate the magnatude of the invention.
  So it is not a huge leap to think EEstor is one of the Stealth.
  c- EEstor Kleiner has done a lot of due dilegence on this (page 3 lst col)
  http://www.zenncars.com/media/images_media/TorontoStar_EEStor.pdf
  d- Consider who management on the borad and running the company.
  
  2) Well past the prototype Stage:
  EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units
  
  I trust that the information given is accurate. Now I think we can all agree, if we are talking assemply line and producing it for commercial application, we are past a prototype stage. Translation we can mass produce it and Stealth is the word, we not goint to talk about prototypes.
  http://www.zenncars.com/investor/releases/Certification_EEStor_01_16_2007.pdf
  
  3) Demo the storage device, in an application to show it's potential
  
  First application in a glorified golf cart called a LSV car, Why this little startup company called Zenn
  - Looks like a car
  - Feels like a car
  - 25 MPH
  - No federal Regulation hurdles
  - Slow speed, utracapacitor of 15K
  - Low entry risk
  
  http://www.zenncars.com/specifications/specs_index.html
  
  4) EEstor is not a manufacturer - it only wants to prove it can be massed produced.
  - Once EEstor proves the utracapacitor works according to specs, they plan on licencing manufactors to produce it.
  - If the claims are as stated, the infrastructure and times to create the utracapacitor is much bigger than the compamy can grow, answer license the technolgy.
  
  http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/dealflow/archives/2005/09/kleiner_perkins_1.html
  
  5) EEstor backs up their claims
  
  Weir maintains that his company will meet all of its claims, and then some. "We're not trying to hype this. This is the first time we've ever talked about it. And we will continue to meet all of the production requirements."
  

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    banrjeer
    

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    03/08/2007 09:07 PM

    Re: 5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

    What is not clear are the implications of the january press release.
    
    have they validated the dielectric mfg process or the properties of the material. If its the latter then it would mean they dont have a working prototype and have made a theoretical projection. if its the former well.. we have something of a sensation.

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    • 
      afjerry
      

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      03/12/2007 09:16 PM

      Re: 5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

      The announcement states that automated production line has been proven to meet requirements for precise chemical delivery, purity control, and stability.  So we are strictly talking about manufacturing to create the desire outcome of the purity…  I have never heard of a product that is going to be manufactured that has not gone through a working prototype.  Base on "Kleiner has done a lot of due diligence" and have allocated 3 million for the project.  You wouldn't be skipping the prototype and going to the manufacturing and setting the target date of 2007.
      
      Let just look at this logically, you create a automated production line, get all the materials, turn it on, get the first capacitor down the assembly line, put it into the zenn, cross your fingers, turn the key and presto, we did it or it didn't work. Clearly the have a prototype. If you want a investor like Kleiner to be on board, you better have the real thing.
      
      Stealth is the word because it exist, and the risks they take on, is to be able to manufactured it, and the real world applications in their environment.  Also eestor would not be allowed to talk about a prototype when they can attract other investors, no mum is the word here until it manufactured, and tested off the assembly line, there will be little news. In fact the only reason you heard this much information is because Zenn had an agreement (before Kleiner got involved) they had an licensing payment based on this milestone which they were allowed to published. Once they met that milestone, notice how fast they got $10 million funding less than a month.
      
      Now assuming I am correct, how much would it cost to create a small manufacturing facility to achieve the objective of proving it can mnaufuactor the product in the purity, consistently in a manufacturing facility. Well I say about $3 million.  After you prove that, you need to have an application to demonstrate the potential and then license it to the manufacturing world.  This is where Zenn LSV car comes in. Looks like a car but really is a gloried golfcart with only one 15k capacitor, not too much for the real world problems and enough to get the attention of what eestor can do.

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      • 
        topon
        

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        04/11/2007 03:31 PM

        Re: 5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

        EEStor is scheduled to be commercialized later this year. And I agree at that point it WILL be on the front page of every newspaper.
        
        this is the reply i got from rich weir when i asked about eestor

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    jakeJ
    

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    03/09/2007 10:00 PM

    Military Apps of Eestor tech

    One factor that y'all may want to consider is the military applications of this technology may be the actual reason for the low profile of EESTOR with the web site going down, etc.  Having spent 40 years in the Military Intelligence world,  I can assure you security classification of various Military/space applications of the Eestor tech are probably Top Secret SCI.
    As a matter of fact the tech may already be operational in DoD.  Is Kliner Perkins a covert front for  a  USG customer? Nahhh couldn't be!  Are there covert customers?
    I think it has just as much application in the Static energy storage area as it does in automotive.  In static sites all the qualms about the fragile ceramics go away.  I am waiting patiently for a good electric storage capability for my  home 20KW wind generator which is now dumping about 100KWH/day of juice onto the local REC lines free of charge as the $$#@%^ bastards will not net meter.  If it works in vehicles all the better. Then I will have static and mobile capability.  I think they should have fielded a static product first and mobile second.  Sigh.

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    GaryB
    

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    03/28/2007 05:45 PM

    Re: 5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

    I of course hope eestore is real and that the "bet" Kleiner Perkins made pays off for
    both parties.  Dense energy store in a battery would go a long way towards solving our
    energy and global warming problems.  One also hopes, but I wouldn't be certain that
    Kleiner Perkins brought along their physics texts when doing due dilligence.
    
    However, eestore's release claims a quick recharge time of:
    "and will have the ability to be recharged in a matter of minutes."
    
    Whereas Zeen's spec claims a much slower recharge
    "8-9 hours (120 VAC), 80% rechargeable in 4 hours"
    
    Is this difference just the fact of the 120 VAC supply?  Even so, it seems very slow to be the same
    battery eestore is talking about. 
    
    What gives?

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    • 
      CJC_PE
      

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      03/29/2007 07:43 AM

      Re: 5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

      The current that can reasonably be drawn from a 120 volt circuit is not enough for a fast charge. To deliver 15,000 watt hours at 100% efficiency in 6 minutes (1/10 hour) 150,000 watts must be delivered for 6 minutes. The required current would be 150,000 watts divided by by 120 volts or 1,250 amperes, more than 60 times what you can get from an ordinary 120 volt circuit.

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    • 
      mjtimber0
      

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      03/30/2007 10:56 AM

      Re: 5 reasons why EEStor is the real deal

      Gary,
      You're not comparing apples to apples.  The current Zenn vehicles use standard lead acid batteries, and have standard recharging times for lead acid technology.  Since capacitors are solid state and don't depend on a chemical reaction like batteries, the charging limits are based on your electron source and the electrical resistance of the components involved.

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