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Another way to save money will be to create battery manufacturing in the United States. Posawatz said that GM has to spend hundreds of dollars per battery pack just for shipping the cells that make up the pack from overseas suppliers. Funds in the recent federal stimulus package passed in February and other legislation could help bring such battery cell manufacturing to the United States.
Posawatz said that GM has been talking with utilities about the possibility of a market for the batteries after their useful life in the car is over. The batteries are designed to last 10 years in a car, at which time they may store only three-quarters of their original capacity and the car may no longer get its full 40-mile electric range. But he said that the battery could still be useful for another 10 years for storing electricity for utilities. It could, for example, store energy from wind turbines during the night for use when there is demand for power during the day. If utilities agreed to buy the batteries, that could lead to financing arrangements that take this into account and lower the cost of the car, according to Felix Kramer, founder of CalCars, a nonprofit organization that promotes plug-in hybrids.
GM is also working with local governments to create incentives that may make more people interested in buying the car. These could include preferential parking, access to car-pool lanes, and publicly available charging stations. In some cases, utilities may offer free services to install dedicated outlets--like the dedicated outlets for clothes dryers or ovens--to allow for fast charging. San Francisco is working on codes that would require new buildings to be equipped for such circuits. GM already has the benefit of a big incentive from the federal stimulus package, which provides a $7,500 tax credit for buying cars such as the Volt.
Such efforts to create incentives could be important because ultimately, what will make the vehicle more affordable is increasing the scale of production, Posawatz said, which will attract more suppliers, creating competition and driving down costs. He expects that the costs for battery chargers, for example, which don't require very complex technology, could fall by two-thirds if there were more qualified suppliers.
The car is an engineering achievement, but it could easily be even more appealing.
A new wave of plug-in hybrids and all-electric vehicles will have to overcome a familiar nemesis: battery costs.
As Nissan and GM prepare to ship flagship electric vehicles, Toyota is taking another road.
I am confused how selling the used battery to utilities will reduce the cost of the car? That will only reduce the replacement cost of the battery pack. That is unless the car already comes with a guaranteed replacement battery pack.
By finding a company willing to purchase half expended batteries you can increase the time it takes to pay off those batteries. If the battery costs $8000, that's $8000 the consumer must pay. This is a simplification, but if GM makes a deal to sell the old batteries to utilities for $3000, then the consumer only needs to pay $5000 and $50000 car can be sold for $45000.
I think the real up hill fight for GM in convincing utilities to do this is that they have to convince them that there will not be a cheaper more efficient alternative available 10 years up the road when they can receive the old batteries.
You are also right in that in that it does little for the consumer in the long run because it doesn't help them unless they sell back their vehicle to GM or trade it in. GM seems to be counting on buying back the vehicles and probably certifying and reselling as a used vehicle with a new battery.
Its amazing to me that this is the best a company like GM can come up with. How many people in todays (and both past and future) economy are going to buy a $50k hybrid? The Prius is stretch already for some. IMO a lot of the younger generations are the ones who are more likely to drive a hybrid (just my experience), and they're most likely not going to be able to drop 50k on one.
This is why its amazing a company like Aptera, has an all electric and a hybrid version that has a much longer range and better overall mileage all for close to $30k with options. Take a look here: http://www.aptera.com/ . Some people may not like the design but its very aerodynamic which cars have been lacking for some time.
Government should step in to help with uphill battle.
Even if electric cars can be technically successful, they will still face major competition from gasoline powered vehicles. In fact, the more successful electrics become, the cheaper the gasoline will be. This then leads to stiffer economic competition. Why buy a $40k electric vehicle when you can buy a similar gasoline powered one for $20k? Add on to that cheap gasoline, and the consumers won't buy electrics because it makes no economic sense.
Of course, "cheap gasoline" at the pump is a misnomer. The true price for society is much higher than the nominal gas price at your petrol station. Society has to carry the burden of massive pollution, and the associated gigantic military costs (wonder why we have to have all those military bases in the Middle East?). If those costs were to be factored into the true price of gasoline, then it would cost far more. Gasoline is not cheap.
One could argue that because society is shouldering all these associated ecologic and military costs, these costs could be viewed as indirect government subsidies to the oil industry.
We should calculate how much these subsidies are per gasoline powered car, and then provide equal (or higher) subsidies to electric cars.
Re: Government should step in to help with uphill battle.
True, only just take the war in Iraq.
How much did the war in Iraq cost upto now? Like $2300 per American? The relation is a fact. This war would not have been if Iraq did not have any oil at all.
Re: Government should step in to help with uphill battle.
You are correct sir/madamm! However government subsidies should only be a part time thing - The market must take over at some point. Unfortunately, money goes to where money is; we, as individuals must smack the horses ass to get it moving as we wish.
"They say you want a revolution - well you know - are we doing what we can?"
I'm not saying the Volt will save GM, but the Volt is the right path toward electrics. $50,000 has been thrown around, but it's not the cost of each car, it's the cost of the average estimated car.
If it works, if it sells more it'll be cheaper. All that development money, not just for technology, but for molds and assembly equipment and all the new low energy items like wipers and window motors.
I know you all know this is how mass production works. High expenditure up front is paid for by high production on the back side.
GM's problems started because their quality was down in the 80s, they pay too much overhead in benefits and wages to their employees and executives, and they guessed the wrong path by pushing large vehicles. Not that stupid when you consider that we were buying large vehicles until gas spiked, maybe shortsighted I agree, but not stupid.
It's pretty easy to jump on the bandwagon and act like GM was stupid. They led the world in sales until last year, that's a pretty good run.
Oh Please! Any one with eyes could see how the 1970's oil crisis (embargo & Hubbert's Bell Curve) would effect politics and energy commerce long into the future. The problem with Carter's Energy plan is that it, like all other government plans, was engulfed by bureaucracy. At that time GM was one of the strongest companies in the world and should have had the for sight that the Japanese had, instead of continuing with the status quo. At that time we heard rumors of cars getting 70+ mpg; arm in arm the BIG 4 and the oil companies led us astray while the oil companies gobbled up almost 90% of all H2 Tech.
During WW1 & WW2 almost 1,000,000 cars, trucks, boats, tanks, tractors and trains were using at least a century's old technology of "Gasification" to fuel their mobile equipment, not to mention all the stationary units for home heat and power and industrial applications. Where is that technology today?
I think many of you are missing the big picture.
How much do you think the government (and the US people)will pay to be rid of Saudi Arabia, Hugo Chaves and all the other oil funded despots and terrorist?
A lot. Once the Volt comes out I would not be surprised to see the government subsidy increase to keep US dollars in the US, and not funding Hamas and Islamic "schools" across the globe.
What would I be willing to pay for a no oil car? 35K. And That is a 15 k more than I would pay for a gas car.
Why? I am tired of my hard work (money) going to a bunch of a-holes who were born on a black pool of oil so they can spend it on palm shaped man made islands and Russian whores.
Once we have cars like the Volt, I would be really surprised if we did not see a lot more government approved nuclear and solar power plants....
You cannot export power production jobs to China....
PrometheusGoneWild.com
Did anyone watch "Who killed the electric car?" GM aggressively recalled the EV1 in 2003.
The volt is a halo car like the corvette. It was created for bragging rights only.
GM noticed all the green press Toyota and others received for their hybrids and the bad press they got from "who killed the EV1?" and so they came up with a halo car to fix the problem.
GM is a manufacturer for the masses and the masses are not going to pay $50k for a car.
The cheap electrics are going to come from China. Too bad for GM. Ford has a chance.
I will stick with my 82 olds... so will others.
Battery cars are a joke... and with a pending carbon tax, it might be more expensive to charge your Volt.
We should wait till we develop an efficient fuel cell.
Government mandates don't work. they didn't work for Russia's five year plans, nor China's great leaps forward.
Let the market determine the future, not governments.
I can't understand why car manufacturers even have to worry about battery packs and hybrids at all.
If the administrations of countries properly push an infrastructure where delivery of energy is handled by the companies that actualy want to sell the energy, hybrids or "recharging your battery" wouldn't be of a concern of car makers nor car drivers.
Just drive into a refuel station, like you drive into a carwash, and plug your credit card into a slot. Have an underground robot pull out one of more battery casettes from your car and replace them with charged ones, so you can step on your paddle and be on your way one minute later.
If the energy supplier wants to/can cram more energy into one casette because they save or earn money on it, that's their issue.
This is not rocket science, it's just a matter of will/determination.
A car costing $50K with $8K Batteries? Maybe we could build a kit car using 2 Reversible PEM 5KW Fuel Cells with a Solar PV Nano-Paint, Regenerative Braking/Acceleration System, a 2000psi 50L Carbon Wisker Tank and built in Wind Drag Turbines FOR LESS!
THANKS ANY WAY... Think it's time to let GM go get some new engineers and less of our tax dollars.
didnt gm produce an electric car that could get 100 miles on a charge and cost way less then this? oh yea thats right they did but for some reason crushed and melted them all. hmm maybe if they had had some prudence they wouldnt be going down the crapper, they deserve what they get, and they should get off the governments tit.
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knb01
6 Comments
The Volt is About Political Capital
Can the Volt save GM? Not by its own merits. GM has publicly admitted it cannot sell the Volt profitably at less than $50,000.
So why is a company that is circling the drain of bankruptcy spending billions it doesn't have on a car that can't make it any money for many years?
The answer is simple. GM has given up on being a profitable company. Instead it will live permanently off of Government bailouts. The Volt is designed to ingratiate the administration and Congress, not to make money.
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davemtl
2 Comments
Re: The Volt is About Political Capital
When our governments tried to get companies to use IT to improve productivity they gave them the ability to depreciate H/W and S/W costs over a short period of time. Why not do the same for cars bought in the next 2 years to get the battery industry up on it's feet. Once plants begin manufacturing high-efficiency batteries in quantities the price should drop dramatically. I say we should allow a 500$ tax credit / year for 5 years on any car using modern (expensive) battery technology. The US will begin manufacturing such batteries which charge remarkably fast, by this fall in Illinois or Indiana (read this recently). What is wrong with such an approach?
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