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Money Trouble in Second Life

Continued from page 1

By Erica Naone

Wednesday, August 08, 2007
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In an interview with Duranske, Sanchez, who says he is in his twenties, explained that he started a bank in Second Life after reading the biography of a famous banker. "In the beginning, even if I were to fail, it would be fairly easy to just pay people from personal income," Sanchez told Duranske. The problem, Duranske says, is that the idea doesn't scale. According to Ginko's website, current deposits total more than $750,000 in U.S. currency--an amount that Sanchez probably can't cover using his personal income.

Matthew Beller, who works for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and, as a hobby, writes about Second Life, says that the current growth in Second Life is "an unsustainable boom." Because the Linden dollar has no commodity backing, he says, the Second Life economy is in danger of crashing when provoked by any sufficient shock. Although the recent shocks may not necessarily cause a run on the Linden dollar itself, Beller says, the danger remains, should additional shocks occur.

As long as Second Life financial markets remain unregulated and mysterious, Bloomfield says, it will be very risky for people to invest in them. There have been recent efforts to increase transparency, however. A Second Life Exchange Commission is now forming, and it's working to establish standards for in-world businesses. In addition, the heads of two of Second Life's major stock exchanges, the International Stock Exchange and the Second Life Capital Exchange (formerly AVIX), recently agreed to allow Bloomfield to analyze their data and release the types of reports that are routine for real-world exchanges.

In spite of the turmoil in Second Life's financial sector, Bloomfield says, he thinks the game's economy will survive as long as there is continued growth in the demand for virtual goods and services, as well as for real services, such as programming in-game systems. "That, to me, is far more important in determining the future of Second Life's economy than little hiccups in the world," he says.

Tags

avatars e-commerce financial markets financial systems Linden Lab Second Life

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Comments
  • uh,, huh?
    OK, I'm confused.... This IS a game, right? A game, so game money is kinda like the old Monopoly money,, little colored bills with choo-choo trains on them,,, but in cyber-world,, right? So, is it just me, or are people by the tens of thousands not only blurring the line between reality and fantasy, but now choosing to LIVE in the fantasy,, and even finance it?!
      There is the old saying, neurotics build sandcastles, psychotics live in sandcastles, and shrinks collect the rent. Time to upgrade, I see.
      Ah, progress, ain't it wonderfull?
    Rate this comment: 12345

    kitk
    08/08/2007
    Posts:65
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    • Re: uh,, huh?
      So, Wall Street hedge funds have taken over and the SEC is doing their usual great job of regulation?
      Just like real life!
      Rate this comment: 12345

      fiberman
      08/08/2007
      Posts:71
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    • Re: uh,, huh?
      Actually, we are talking about real money.  About US$1.5M passes through Second Life every day, and I know several people who make a reasonable living, $3-5K a month, entirely in-world.

      Even greater is the "mixed-reality" market -- firms which, like my own, bring real-world companies into SL.  IBM's making a $10M commitment to "v-commerce" -- whether you believe this is another dotcom bubble or not, there's a lot of real dollars changing hands.

      Shava Nerad
      shava -at- indigenis -dot- com
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      shava
      08/08/2007
      Posts:3
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    • Re: uh,, huh?
      No - as the author says, there is an exchange rate and on the back of that real dollar millionaires have been made, so in-game theft IS real-world theft. It's not so much that people are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality, more that the boundaries have in fact been merged somewhat.

      I suggest reading "Second Lives: A Journey Though Virtual Worlds" by Tim Guest for more info.
      Rate this comment: 12345

      jdaniels
      08/24/2007
      Posts:1
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      1/5
      • Re: Re: uh,, huh?
        The idea that SL is "just a game" indicates how unaware of the many RL uses to which this particular "game" has been put. For one eye opening example go here: http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=7963538
        Rate this comment: 12345

        ghawk
        08/25/2007
        Posts:1
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  • Commentators are Virtual, Too
    The problem with all these would-be regulators and commentator/hobbyists is that they have no more standing in the world than the banks and financial institutions they seek to control. The SLEC is not attached to any actual elected government with proper checks and balances; it just sprang up full blown because someone felt like role-playing it. The disclosures made to Robert Bloomberg are welcome, but they should be made to investors and the public, not just watchers of everyone else who has a stake in SL.

    The curious thing about Ginko is that it has persisted three years, long past the sort of scheme that Ponzi cooked up in the 1920s, which lasted six months. And while it is indeed risky, the owners have been straightforward about their notification of the risks, and have kept the public informed as they have steadily increased withdrawals after the run on the bank.

    The fact is, real life is filled with banking that bilks the public with all kinds of fees, high credit costs, and holding of deposits, and is prone to things like the savings and loan scandals of past years. One hope that a virtual world could try to make something better, but for that to happen there has to be a certain tolerance about how they get formed by anonymous avatars who seek in fact to evade what Americans would find unconscionably unfair restrictions on business in other parts of the world.

    SL is serving as an international platform to a lot of different people. When these pundits get done spouting, many of them will remain going about their business.

    Beller has made a number of errors -- I think many analysts don't grasp that the Lindens print and sell both their currency and their land in large amounts to keep both the money and real estate market stable and low cost for new entries. I've discussed some of these issues here:
    http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2007/08/taking-stock-th.html

    The story is more complex than rendered here, and I'd urge Technology Review to tune back in in about 3 months or so to see whether some of these analyses proved true. This desire to play "gotcha" with fledgling virtual world institutions by those with real-life credentials is disturbing to me; the task shouldn't be to strangle virtuality and eradicate it in favour of a highly-flawed reality, but to see if its energy, diversity and creativity can be harnessed for better things.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    Prokofy
    08/08/2007
    Posts:7
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    • Re: Commentators are Virtual, Too
      You implied that if these are Ponzi schemes they could not have lasted this long.  Ponzi was buying and selling postage stamp spreads in 1920.  His scheme was geographically limited by 1920s communications capabilities.  He also failed because of "regulators" and other real world entities who really arrested him, brought him before a real judge who put him in a real jail, with real bars.  Really!
      Rate this comment: 12345

      oconnmic
      08/08/2007
      Posts:21
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      • Re: Commentators are Virtual, Too
        The issue is not so black & white... it's not as simple as labeling Ginko as a Ponzi scheme and saying it would utterly fail just because, seen from outside, it *looks* like a Ponzi scheme.

        Ginko is far more interesting and diversified than that, although the mysterious nature of it just adds some spice to the romance of virtual banking :) For instance, Ginko is known to diversify their investments on a *lot* of venues — both in Second Life and Real Life. They used to run a lottery. They sell ads. They manage virtual estate. They invest in other Second Life companies that invest in virtual estate. They issue bonds. And so on. This explains its longevity — and, to an extent, since this is a almost-zero-cost operation, without an office or even without paying taxes, they're certainly able to pay a compound interest of 50% annually — not too much, if you consider that real banks *are* able to provide high-risk, high-yield products close to 30-33% annually, *BUT* they have to deal with huge overheads — from running multiple offices and having immense costs with employees, not to mention... taxes...!

        The issue here is really that there is one factor that Nicholas Portocarrero and his Ginko Financial could never rule out: humans are not absolutely rational beings. They panic. And although this was a combination of factors — casino owners leaving SL and getting all their money back, cash out, and leave (perhaps as many as 10 thousand people in less than a week), the World Stock Exchange being 'robbed' (or whatever *really* happened), the grid being unstable for a week or so, summer coming up, or a conjunction of planets and stars that affected personal auras — no matter what the reasons were, the results were the same: people panicked, they wanted their money back, and the more they tried, the less people managed to actually get anything out. I'm afraid that in these situation nobody at Ginko could predict how things would evolve.

        When the same thing happened in real life Argentina, not many years ago, the government had to freeze all accounts, since banks were crashing all over the country. It was not so different in many other countries where the same happened. Fear and panic are irrational, in real life or in Second Life — the difference is that in Second Life, there is no "government" that could "force" Ginko to freeze its accounts and weather out the panic. It's admirable that Ginko opted instead to implement a "withdrawal queue", giving everybody a fair chance to recover their investments — at a cost of waiting several weeks.

        Well. From my naive point of view, the best strategy right now is *not* to wait on a queue (while not earning any interest on the money), but instead, to go for a 30-day term deposit for *twice* the interest :) Why wait 30 days on a withdrawal queue without earning any interest when I can have my money back in a month or so — when the Second Life residents, with their short-term memory, will jump onto the next drama and forget about Ginko — and *getting more interest every day*?

        I've been a customer of Ginko for two years and a half. I haven't lost a single cent, and I don't intend to :)
        Rate this comment: 12345

        Gwyneth Llew...
        08/08/2007
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        • Re: Commentators are Virtual, Too
          Most of the panic was caused by SL commentators siccing RL media on SL and amplifying the panic. The casino ban had only made the LindEx drop about a point. Ginko had survived the telehub pull-outs, the  GOMing of GOM, the island price hikes and many other fluctuations, big and small in the SL economy. And yes, the diversity of its portfolio may have given it staying power.

          I neither support nor condemn Ginko's. I think people should decide their own expenditures in a virtual world, and the oppressive wannabee regulators looking for fees and glory in the media need to back off.
          Rate this comment: 12345

          Prokofy
          08/08/2007
          Posts:7
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      • Re: Commentators are Virtual, Too
        I'm raising the question given the obvious structural faults of any Ponzi scheme, where the scammer is using deposits to fund interest to previous depositrs. In the slow communications era of the 1920s, it *only* took 6 months for people to figure it out and run on the bank. In the instant communications of 2007, it should have taken six hours, then, by that logic. The fact that it has persisted so long, despite inworld and outworld questioning, does mean that it is not so clear-cut and a lot more has to be pondered about it than the facile, vengeful take on it that some are perpetrating now.
        Rate this comment: 12345

        Prokofy
        08/08/2007
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  • two facts
    1) SL is a game and should not be made into a life.
    2) Idiots will do stupid things.
    So much regulation is to prevent stupid people from doing stupid things.  They should be allowed to do stupid things in a GAME.  Let me shoot up some ho-s in Grand Theft, let me rip off investors in SL.  Let the investors burn down my avatar's house in SL and use the corpse for a pinata.  It would make an interesting episode in the game.  Only an idiot would invest the rent money in a game.  Vegas was built on those idiots.
    Let it be a free wheeling, wild world.  If someone wants regulation, vote democrat.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    SirLanse
    08/08/2007
    Posts:42
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    • Re: two facts
      Hello SirLanse,

      Dont you know that there are a lot of people who hate their real life so much, who feel so emasculated in the world they live in. THese peolpe jump at any opportunity to flee the real world to live in a made up one.
      Rate this comment: 12345

      aymeric
      08/08/2007
      Posts:19
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      • Re: two facts
        I will address different comments.
        1) Even if the ludic dimension of SL is evident, considering it merely as a game -as in comparison to other VG- just blurs our perception of the phenomena (beyond the mere conception of "life as a game").
        2) All of the people who experience a Second Life do it while they live their first life (some actually earn their living through digital interchange). And, just in case you don't get it: second lives are not exclusively an online practice (Shakespeare, Goffman, Paul de Man....)
        3) About living the fantasy: Second Life is far from an Utopia -not More's nor Bacon's- in terms of the residents' experience. Businesses crash and people get robbed, like outside the digital realm. The living of fantasy, then, remains only as an operative liberty -linked to a transformation accentuation-  which users and non-users tend to forget.
        Rate this comment: 12345

        elrufian
        08/08/2007
        Posts:2
    • Re: two facts
      Regarding your fact #1, saying that SecondLife is a game is the same as saying "Netscape/IE is just a game." It's not a game, nor is it life. It's an interraction tool, like a web browser in 3D, that just happens to have virtual currency built in. Real life services and transactions happen through SecondLife, just as they happen through web browsers. Just not on the same scale.
      Rate this comment: 12345

      Rassah
      08/08/2007
      Posts:2
      Avg Rating:
      5/5
      • Re: two facts
        Stating that something is a fact and actually proving it is a fact are two different things. In fact, the difference between "belief" and "science" is founded on that premise :) You can state "Second Life is a Game" and believe in it as hard as you wish without requiring any "facts" to either prove or disprove your statement.

        Sure, Second Life is entertaining, and most games are entertaining; there are also a lot of games in Second Life. Still, that's the same thing as claiming that my PC is a gaming machine just because I can play games with my PC — and, as a matter of fact, it wasn't so long ago when everybody "believed" in the "fact" that "computers are only good for games"... with as much conviction :)

        (Oh, and I've heard the same argument about the Web, just 15 years ago)
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        Gwyneth Llew...
        08/08/2007
        Posts:3
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  • About SL Banking...it DOES connect to the Real World
    Folks, I think you are missing a key point:  There is a conversion from LD to real $!  As a result, say somebody took $10,000, converted it to LD (2,700,000) and invested it in a bank with 100% interest for a year, and took it out...they can convert it back to $ and, assuming the conversion rate hasn't jumped to ~150 LD/$, they make out better than most investments...

    It's a straightforward financial calculation (do a Google search on Japanese Carry Trade) for foreign exchange borrowing (aka FOREX), given some assumptions on interest rates, conversion rates, and your planned investments.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    mathemagicia...
    08/08/2007
    Posts:1
    • Re: About SL Banking...it DOES connect to the Real World
      No, see, this is where you fail.

      Just because something has a conversion rate doesn't mean anything if they don't have the money to back it up. This is the SIMPLE point the article was making. I can promise you 1288% return on a one year investment. Come around one year later, and I won't have the money. Why? Because there wasn't financial backing for it. The linden currency can't grow at a higher rate than the real world currency as it's not a government that's giving you an exchange rate, it's a company with limited funds.

      You dolt.
      Rate this comment: 12345

      smithsomian
      08/08/2007
      Posts:51
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      • Re: About SL Banking...it DOES connect to the Real World
        just to add to your comment...

        It's not even SL but a simulation of a bank within SL.  It has no legal obligation to pay anything to anyone.  They are just virtually bankrupt and you are virtually broke.  I guess you take them to the virtual court and get a virtual judgement.
        Rate this comment: 12345

        oconnmic
        08/08/2007
        Posts:21
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        4/5
      • Re: About SL Banking...it DOES connect to the Real World
        I thought private traders gave exchange rates on open markets, not governments? Similar to how private traders on LindeX give exchange rates, with Linden Labs just trying to keep the currency from inflating by dumping millions of printed L$ on the market.
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        Rassah
        08/08/2007
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  • How they pay such high interest rates.
    Why do people keep falling for these schemes? It seems intuitively obvious that these banks have taken their business model not from real world banks or investment managers but from Charles Ponzi.

    As Benjamin Duranske said in the article, "It's not as if these people have discovered something that hedge-fund and mutual-fund managers don't know,"
    Rate this comment: 12345

    oconnmic
    08/08/2007
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    • Re: How they pay such high interest rates.
      If people fall for these schemes, it isn't because they've been misled or lied to. The notecards that are readily available with a click on the terminal make no promise to have withdrawals available, nor promise of any term for the interest offered, which has steadily lowered over time -- and been publicized as lowering. The fact that it lasted for 3 years gave many people a sense of trust in it.

      SL isn't a game, even being a platform involving a lot of "play". The money is able to be cashed out for real dollars; the Lindens legally have no intrinsic worth and are not redeemable, but the "license to sell them" can be bought and sold on the LindEx which is publicly available as a currency exchange for Lindens and US dollars for all avatars.

      It's also important in this discussion to separate what is happening with this one particular bank -- Ginko's -- and everything else about SL. SL itself isn't failing, and it's currency exchange is stable. And there are other banks in SL that aren't closing.
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      Prokofy
      08/08/2007
      Posts:7
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  • Hyperinflation?
    Just out of curiosity - I wonder if a hyperinflationary spiral could ever ignited in Second Life?  Not necessarily from a bank run, of course.  It certainly would be fascinating to watch it spin up ...
    Rate this comment: 12345

    dmcheng
    08/08/2007
    Posts:1
  • a comprehensive theory of money
    read about a comprehensive theory of money.
    its not quite what you think it is. about inflation, deflation, panics, runs on the bank.

    so far, hackers are slow to discover the ultimate machine-- our money system.

    read it free--

    a paper I wrote called "fractional reserve banking as economic
    parasitism"

    endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
    magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
    economics paper. used by economics
    teacher in australia as standard classroom material.

    more info on request.

    "fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism"

    http://econpapers.repec.org/paper/wpawuwpma/0203005.htm



    recent supporting material: "confessions of an economic hit man"

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251

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    vzn
    08/08/2007
    Posts:4
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  • SL is a useful medium, but risky like anything else.
    I agree with the above post concerning SL as an interaction tool. It is a medium for commerce, adevertising, and entertainment. To some of you it seems that commerce and entertainment have become dangerously blended.

    I would like to posit however, that that such blending is already commonplace in today's society. The only thing that has changed is the degree with which you can experience and affect this medium. I wouldn't say that people 'live' in Second Life, they simply gain a virtual proximity to more people through the interface, people who need or can render services or simply want to communicate.

    Take television, for instance. In it's early days it was a largely one-way interface, with content decided by the broadcasting corporations. The corporations' decisions were then influenced by the market and somewhere, way down the line, the consumers.

    Look at televesion today. It is, in the vast majority of cases, a subscription service, rendered by phoneline, cable, or sattelite connections. Most set-top receivers for subscription TV contain a modem, enabling pay-per-view services and customer feedback.

    This, in effect, brings the all-powerful market to the consumers' homes. MTV, HGTV, paid programming, and commercials- television is a marketplace. It's entertaining, of course, but so is Second Life.

    Plus, if you're worried about the way that people invest "real" money in the Linden economy, what about the BILLIONS of dollars- I don't know, trillions?- that get spent in digital transactions everyday? Credit cards, eBay, Amazon.com, and online banking- they're all in the realm of digital information. The fear to convert to Linden dollars is actually rooted in the lack of onfidence we have in digital information's longevity. We can feel cash money in our hands and know it's there, and that's why we trust it.

    I personlly don't think that SL should be a target itself, but the trust that we, as a society, have put into the vast armada of aging computers and tech specialists that cradle our nation's economy and often give it appearances which can be deceiving.

    What if the silicon giant gets the flu? "Single Desktop Computer Caused 'LAX Hell'" is a short, intersesting article on Hardocp.com which gives a glimpse of the sort of chaos that can be created when computer-dependent systems fail.

    Now, I'm not saying I hate computers- I thuroughly enjoy them. For me it's just one of those sobering moments you have, when reality is a lot darker than you would prefer.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    zippo
    08/18/2007
    Posts:24
    Avg Rating:
    4/5
  • Obviously, SL Does Not Care !
    I just wish to place something about SL out on the internet because it is so very obvious that LL does not care what their customers think and I am past fed up with how LL pretty much ignores anything to do with complaints.

    I cannot find where to write to LL as in where anyone would actually read the darn email and if read I cannot find anyone who cares what is written, again I am past fed up with how LL ignores complaints.

    I have come to the conclusion that LL must think that people will actually continue to spend their money in land so LL does not care when a person actually decides they are fed up enough to stop spending their money in land. I have decided that LL must think that there will always be enough people to buy land and pay high monthly tier so they do not need to be concerned about the current spenders.

    I do feel that LL will eventually bite their nose of to spite their face and if it does not happen through the lack of care of big spenders within SL then I guess it will happen with the, what seems to be, more important issues like banning gambling etc ...
    If that is what has to do it then that is fine by me because I am so sick of LL not taking care of their big spenders.

    I personally do not care about the gambling as I do not gamble and if LL is going to lose customers because of the ban on gambling, I would think LL might would stop and realize they better take care of the customers they do have that have no concerns over the gambling ... BUT instead, LL still does not care and obviously thinks they will have customers no matter what ...

    I do feel that the sex industry in SL is big enough to keep LL in business as I found myself sickened to read my home town newspaper, The Tampa Tribune, and learn that one of the sex items creators is making over 40K each year in one type of item they have created ... not including all of the many other items and ways to make money ... I found myself sick to read that this creator is a local person of my home town and my mother knew this persons elderly family members who owned a local business and this person has made so much money on sex in SL that they have sold the family business ... it is sickening to have it confirmed that this real world is truely a sick place and sex will most likely keep LL in business, therefore LL does not care that they ban gambling, nor does LL care about us who have paid high monthly land tiers ... with sex being the big sale, LL does not need anyone else and it is made very clear there are enough sex deprived people in this world to keep LL in business.

    I have paid high monthly land tiers ever since I got to SL because I love building and creating. I do not build and create to sell anything and I do not try to make money in SL. I came to SL to build and create for my own personal hobby fun.

    I have been in SL since October of 2005 spending a whole lot of money in land purchases and high monthly tier. I am one of LL's big spenders and I probably have spent a lot more than any private island owner as I have had no desires to own a private island and do prefer living on the mainland owning over a half of a sim to myself for my own building hobby fun.

    I have owned land in quite a many sims on the mainland in my moving around to get away from things that LL should be tending to but LL does not and the only thing I can do is sell my land pretty much at a loss and move to get away from violators ...

    As I have owned a lot of land in SL, the problem that I have constantly run into is the fact that people are very inconsiderate and perhaps too ignorant to know how to stand at the property lines and keep their frigging items on their own side. It has been a constant loss for me as others have trees hanging so far onto my land they stick into my builds and not only trees but their buildings far over the property line inside of my buildings and builds ... what is on one side of the center cannot be removed by me so that means from one very edge side of the center is on my land and I can do nothing about it but to give up that portion of my land to the person on the land next to me ... or move and lose money of which the latter is what I have done repeatedly in order to get away from this mess.

    Before any loss of money due to having to move I have ALWAYS sent in tons of abuse reports along with snapshots showing the property lines and just how far over people are onto my land and with their trees and buildings inside of my buildings and creations ...

    I have always gotten emails from LL with notice the issue has been taken care of and I sit here and cuss them out under my breath as I read their emails stating the issue is taken care of while I am logged into SL still looking at the trees and buildings sticking far over onto my land of which I pay price to own and I pay the high monthly tier to maintain it.

    High monthly tier to me is 125 a month and I read supposedly we are valued customers but I have found that to be just some bs line that is not of any truth to it as LL truely does not care.

    As I have accepted this constant loss due to selling land very cheap just so that I can move elsewhere to a place where for a time is no trees and buildings sticking into mine due to any ignorant and rude neighbors, I have recently had an encounter with a linden employee that has caused me to say to hell with it all, I will not support LL any longer with big land tiers.

    I have always tried to keep half of my prims freed up as my way of helping to keep lag down as low as is possible. I do not use very many scripted items as another way to help keep down on the lag. I have figured being that I own over half of a sim then what I do can affect the sim in a very major way.

    I had 4000 prims freed up, not using them even though I did in fact pay high land tier to use them. I got sick of the fact that when I go up in my balloon and accidentally fly over my property lines soon I will be kicked off of my balloon because of all of the people who think that secure orbs and property ban lines are so vital to them. In all my BIG land purchases and moves I have yet to find such security so needed and these things are in fact a bigger grief than any griefer.

    Anyhow ... SO ... I did put up 100x100 clear walls that had borders around the edges facing my land just for me so that I could see while in the sky where my land stopped so that I would not cross over to other lands so that I could actually enjoy my balloon ride. Owning over a half of a sim is plenty of room for me to enjoy a nice balloon ride as long as I can stay on my own land.

    I was fine that even though I have begged and pleaded to no avail for LL to please remove these trees and buildings out of my items because the people do not ever so nicely come remove their crap when you nicely ask them as LL seems to think that all you have to do is ask the neighbor nicely  ... I have had several people dare me to turn in abuse reports as they have laughed stating that LL will do nothing ... what bs that is !!! ... I have tolerated this since day one of being in SL ...

    So here I have lost tons of money tolerating this and even being told by one linden that they cant remove an item from my land because they will get into trouble as LL prefers that the owner of the item removes their own item ... Here comes along a linden to remove my personal border walls that I put up ...

    This linden left an IM stating not to use that many mega prims as it uses resources ... I was fine with that, no big deal ... even though I have 4000 prims freed up using a lot less resources than the majority in SL ... but ok that was fine, those big walls were not like all that necessary ....

    BUT THEN ... this linden employee also removed my 40x40 balloon to my balloon home I had created to live in the sky and he removed my 50x50 work space deck ... Like he was not allowing me the use of any mega prims at all whatsoever and here I owned over half of this sim with 4000 prims not being used and my neighbor owning a lot less land using mega prims out the rear on his land ...

    SO ... I decided okkkkk you want to be this ignorant ??? ... You want to pee off your highest paying customer by not allowing them the use of any mega prims at all whatsoever ? ... Yet you leave ALL of the MANY mega prims on the land next door to a land that is not even a fourth of what I own and this neighbor has their prim allowance maxed out, meaning I pay the high tier yet they are allowed to use up all of the resources ??

    I am in process of selling this big land and it will be the last for me ever. I will NEVER buy land in SL ever again, I will never have a tier payment EVER again ... I have had enough of LL's bs and it is in fact total BS ....

    I will continue to play in SL, I do rent a small place from a friend and I have always kept this place to rent just as a place of solitude for me for when I really want to disappear and be alone but this rent payment is covered by my weekly stipend so no cost to me out of my real pocket except to keep my yearly membership with SL ...

    I do repeat ... This is finally IT ... I have had past enough and I will never again support LL with my money as LL does not appreciate the business.

    I have wanted to complain to LL about this linden who took upon himself to play God but I have yet to ever write in to LL where anyone ever seemed to really actually read the email so that is absolutely useless ...

    With this ... I have decided to go all over the internet and anywhere I find that I am allowed to post a posting ... I am going to say what I have said here in this posting ... I do not know that you allow this but I am giving it a shot ... I am sick enough of the massive loss of cash to me and the total lack of concern by LL and I will spread it all over the internet being as LL doesn't read emails like this nor would they care about it if they did !!

    LL seems to think there will just always be customers and with the sex being such a big thing LL may very well be right but I will say my say regardless !!

    Thank You to anyone who has taken time to read this and Thank You to anyone who actually gives a chit about what I have posted.
    To All A Great Life
    :o)
    Cherry
    Rate this comment: 12345

    Cherry Bobbe...
    08/22/2007
    Posts:1
  • Second Life Customer Service is a scam
    Second Life Customer Service is nothing but a line for players to call to be told Linden Labs WILL NOT do anything about anything that happens on their Grid.
    I got scammed in a mainland deal….got pissed off…..called LL…only to be told they would investigate.
    Well needless to say nothing was done within the timeframe that allowed me to recieve a refund from either PayPal or my Bank.
    So Be It…I frackked up and it only cost me 12$ to learn…cheaper than a night out drinking.
    So Linden Labs makes me pay 9.95$ a month +5$ a week Land Maintence Fee
    WHAT THE HELL FOR?
    If they readly admit they can do nothing about what happens inside their game.
    Why Pay Them to have Non-Existent In World Support
    Now the same day …as this land problem…they charge the WRONG PAYMENT METHOD for my account…I had updated the payment inforamtion that same Morning and made a purchase to confirm it was moved to my new payment method.
    Now I log into my bank account only to see they had charged the wrong account…I called “Billing Support”…support my arse…they made me feel a fool..then told me they would do nothing about this problem either.
    So I decided to Google any Message Board Associated with SL and tell the players my problem.
    DON”T LET LINDEN LABS STEAL YOUR MONEY!!!!!!!!

    Keep a free account or don’t play at all.
    Just my .02 on the matter
    HiredGun Destiny
    Rate this comment: 12345

    HiredGun
    12/05/2008
    Posts:1
  • Secondlife does steal your money
    i have had many friends in second life, lost land  there homes all there inventory,, before you spend any money in this game read there TOS agreement, play with free accounts,Buyer beware, don't spend want you are not willing to lose
    Rate this comment: 12345

    Pura
    01/14/2009
    Posts:1
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