Business

Automotive AC Makers Are Sweating

(Page 2 of 2)

  • Monday, May 8, 2006
  • By Peter Fairley

The new system will add costs "because it offers better cooling and an added fuel consumption lower than its competition," said Behr CEO Markus Flik in a speech last month in Stuttgart. "R744 is the refrigerant of the future," boasted Flik, using CO2's industry code name.

The CO2 in air-conditioning systems is a fluid, compressed to as high as 140 bar -- five times higher than the maximum pressure in conventional car air conditioners. The liquid CO2 absorbs and dispenses heat more efficiently than hydrofluorocarbon refrigerants, so the system can be engineered to deliver an equivalent amount of cooling faster and, on average, using less energy.

Of course operating at higher pressure requires tougher, more expensive parts. And it also requires a more sophisticated control system. In fact, Glober says that a CO2-based system under conventional controls can exert substantial torque on the engine when it starts up -- enough to stall a small car.

Denis Clodic, director of the Center for Energy and Processes at École des Mines in Paris, points to another cost: establishing servicing networks for the high-pressure systems. "There is a lot of complexity to these systems. That means lots of training," he says.

Clodic predicts that, at least in 2011, CO2–based systems will appear only in high-end luxury cars, and only in Europe. "We will see some thousands of cars made by Audi, BMW, and Mercedes, to show the European Commission that they really tried to prepare something alternative," he says. "But there won't be a mass market for 2011."

That is, assuming the hydrofluorocarbons from the chemical manufacturers pass muster in long-term testing. DuPont has said that it could take five years to commercialize its new hydrofluorocarbon refrigerant. By that time, companies like Behr may have overcome the remaining challenges with the CO2 systems -- identifying affordable CO2 sensors and reducing the cost of high-pressure hoses and compressors. If so, both technologies could enter the market -- initiating a classic competition based on performance and price.

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Guest (kitk)

  • 2108 Days Ago
  • 05/08/2006

to freon or not to freon

Frankly, I never bought into the whole 'danger to the ozone shield' theory. Chlorofluocarbons are very heavy molecules, and the 'ozone holes' reported tend to occur exactly where they would naturally. But this makes loads of money for activist groups--and researchers.

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Guest (Ynot)

  • 2108 Days Ago
  • 05/08/2006

Then obviously...

Researchers of all stripes fabricated results that indicated increased concentration of CFC's in the upper atmosphere.  They also has to then demonstrate reaction pathways for the distruction of ozone that really couldn't occur.  It is amazing how much some people wish to disbelieve hard science, are you also a proponent of intelligent design?

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Guest (Greg)

  • 2107 Days Ago
  • 05/09/2006

The science of ozone depletion is pretty well established.  In fact, Roland and Molina, who theorized it back in 1973, have now, many years later, gotten a Nobel prize in chemistry for their work.  But back in the 1970s, they were ridiculed by the CFC industry.  For a nice description, you could look at the book: Protecting The Ozone Layer: The United Nations History
by Stephen O. Andersen. 

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Guest (Jeff)

  • 2108 Days Ago
  • 05/08/2006

Absorbtion Cycle?

I know of at least one company that has been working on an ammonia cycle refrigerant system for cars using waste heat from the engine which for obvious reasons makes all kinds of sense.  The major drawback is it doens't act quickly - you have to wait perhaps a minute for it to start working as the engine warms up.  Personally I wouldn't care particularly with the energy savings it offers.

I've wondered for nigh on 35 years why this has never caught on, but then I'm an engineer not a politician or capitalist pig.

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Guest (brandon)

  • 2107 Days Ago
  • 05/09/2006

absorbtion

would you share the names of the companies dealing in ammonia, great refrigerant with nasty reprecussions

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Guest (blert)

  • 2107 Days Ago
  • 05/09/2006

Absorbtion cycle's difficulties

The need for a substantial condensor and the sensitivity of the system to vibration troubles has killed this idea.

Long haul trucking would be the market to target.

As with any new technolgy the mass produced automobile is the LAST market to tackle.

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Guest (Randy Dutton)

  • 2106 Days Ago
  • 05/10/2006

Ammonia cycle

I also would like whatever good and bad information you have on the ammonia cycle refrigerent system.

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Guest (Ivan)

  • 2085 Days Ago
  • 05/31/2006

Residential unit

I am beginning work on combining a propane fuel cell with an Absorbtion unit for domestic use.  Teh overall efficiencies should be attractive and the extra waste heat will provide hot water.  Any help along these lines would be appreciated, ivank2005@comcast.net

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Guest (Grunchard)

  • 2105 Days Ago
  • 05/11/2006

Extra fuel consumption

I am puzzled by the "extra fuel consumption " argument. What would drivers do by hot weather ? Drive with fully open windows : which would cause the same - or higher - extra fuel consumption.

In addition regulators and environmentalists never take in consideration the merits of air conditioned on driving safety and improved health conditions for babies and old people.

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Guest (Poly)

  • 2105 Days Ago
  • 05/11/2006

What ever happened to ROVAC?

Years ago in Popular Science I remember reading about an A/C system that took interior compartment air and compressed it (like with engine turbo chargers) then ran the pressurized (heated)air through a cooler (like a turbo charger intercooler) and when the "now cooler" pressurized air was released back into vehicle interior it expanded and was cooler. What ever happened to that concept? It's something to do with the old supercharger sitting in the garage!! =];-)

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shogun1940

1 Comment

  • 368 Days Ago
  • 02/11/2011

Re: What ever happened to ROVAC?

good question I thought rovac was the answer to pollution from a/c. what happens if we have millions of cars running on hydrogen , and they leak, wouldn't h go up to the o3 and combine to ruin the ozone layer

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