Friday, June 19, 2009
Challenging Chu on Hydrogen Fuel Cells
The chairman of the California Air Resources Board responds to the energy secretary's anti-hydrogen-fuel-cell stance.
Our recent interview with Steven Chu, the U.S. secretary of energy, seems to have raised the hackles of hydrogen-fuel-cell supporters. In the interview, Chu said that there are four "miracles" that need to happen before hydrogen fuel cells can be practical. Basically, he says, we need better ways to produce, distribute, and store hydrogen, and we need better, cheaper fuel cells. "If you need four miracles, that's unlikely: saints only need three miracles," he said.
Mary Nichols, the chairman of the California Air Resources Board, noticed his remarks and has sent a letter in response, as Green Car Congress reports:
In her letter to Secretary Chu, Nichols attached a summary response from ARB technical staff responding to each of the Four Miracles.
All promising low-carbon non-petroleum transportation options, including hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, battery electric vehicles, and advanced liquid biofuels in combustion engines, face significant technical, resource, and market challenges. Hydrogen and fuel cells show great potential and have met or exceeded nearly all of the technical milestones set out by US DOE. Several major automakers are pursuing early market testing with consumers beginning this year and are expected to ramp up production to nearly 50,000 vehicles in california by 2017. Ultimately the market will decide which technologies are the winners, but given the critical importance to our long term climate and energy security goals, the best approach is to pursue and invest in a portfolio of the most promising options.
See more details of Nichols's response to Chu here.
Comments
MakeSense
06/20/2009
Posts:99
Use MIT’s Technology Review web articles and blog entries for reference material.
??? “You say hydrogen fuel cells are impossible to fly? Well, I say a TIAX analysis of system cost presented at the DOE 2009 Merit Reviews earlier this year estimated a cost of $23/kWh. And you with your solar cells are way down that line my friend”??? la la la.
I would pay to see it.
StupidPeasan...
06/20/2009
Posts:47
This is a well known process - water plus magnesium combines under heat and other conditions to form hydrogen plus magnesium oxide. The magnesium oxide would them be recycled at a fueling station, likely run by the same people running gas stations today.
New pellets of magnesium would be piped into your tank when the spent oxide had been removed.
you'd top off your tank with water also.
The same reaction also occurs with aluminum. Aluminum forms a protective skin preventing 'rust' or oxidation. However in the presence of a small amount of gallium the protective skin won't form and aluminum will react almost explosively with water at room temperature, evolving hydrogen gas.
'gas' stations (now fueling stations) would truck the oxide back to a plant that would turn it back into metal, which requires alot of electricity, which can come from any source including renewable sources. This is where the energey is 'put into' the fuel. Alternatively the fueling stations could have a patch of solar panels, wind turbines or wire up to other electric source and turn the metallic oxides back into metal.
These are well known processes but currently they are concentrated near where the ores are originally mined. Aluminum is one of the most abundant materials in the earth's crust. Likely this process would need to be spread out, closer to the energy use, with market patterns and power availability determining placement.
The last miracle, making fuel cells cheaper depends on 1) research finding the optimum material and configuration, 2) having a humongous chemical plant on the mississippi churn out the plastic membrane by the mile, lowering the price. So the last miracle can happen too.
An additional miracle will happen when we switch over: the efficiency of fuel->fuelcell->motion is twice that of ICE - internal combustion engines, so we will be saving energy.
erbium
06/21/2009
Posts:143
Used travel trailers
in FL
Davidjames81
06/22/2009
Posts:6
nmaguire
06/22/2009
Posts:1
The DOE is deemphasizing fuel cells for autos, emphasizing fuel cells for stationary applications. It may be that stationary applications will yield the market and manufacturing scale needed as a first step to bring the price down another order of magnitude. This makes a lot more sense for the next 10-20 years-- we should be spending a lot more for stationary fuel cell research (now) than for auto fuel cells.
There is much debate these days comparing battery-electric vehicles vs fuel cell, but in most cases, the comparison is between current battery cost and projected future fuel cell cost. At current prices, batteries are cheaper than fuel cells, and we don't know what future battery/ultracapacitor costs might be. The EEStor hype seems no less credible than the $30/kW fuel cell hype.
carlhage
06/22/2009
Posts:36
Natural gas distribution and storage exists. I think it is worth considering natural gas stored on the car with an on board reformer and natural gas reformed at the gas station with hydrogen storage on the car. The carbon foot print of transportation might shrink faster if dependant on more than one supply chain.
Pursuing multiple battery chemistries makes since. I think transportation fuel cells are worth still considering under the scenarios where the well to wheels efficiency isn't terrible. There are many other factors to consider besides efficiency but the well to wheels efficiency argument is often used to make a case that fuel cells make no since whatsoever.
The point made above about fuel cells having many applications such as distributed power is also important to avoid branding of all types of fuel cells for all applications under a single term with negative connotations.
buelts
06/24/2009
Posts:12