• 744 Days Ago
• 01/28/2010

Is that really why there is not flash on the iPad

I'm just a little boggled here. Apple, a company committed to creating the best possible user experience, decide that in the name of the AppStore to drop the ball on there #1 priority? Maybe we should look a little deeper, and consider Adobe in all of this.

It is well know that Adobe Flash is the #1 contributor to Apple's crash logs, over and above everything else.
Now consider how you use flash, well you don't. You use a browser that has been extended by a third party, that Apple has zero control over. So when your browser crashes due to a poorly written plugin, you don't think to yourself, oh stupid flash, you think of stupid Safari, stupid Apple I thought these things were supposed to be good. To me it's up to Adobe to lift it's game on the stability front on the OS-X platform. Then it's in Apple court to implement a stable build of Flash in the standard distribution of Safari for iPhone/iPad. No there should not be a plugin system for Safari on the iPad or the iPhone. It is wonderfully stable at the moment, and let's keep it that way.

PS. No I don't work for apple, and I think there are a lot of other things that kinda sux about the devices, and lack of flash is one of them, I just don't blame Apple for not implementing it.

• 744 Days Ago
• 01/28/2010

I posted this to that Adobe blog. Currently moderated off.

If my browser didn't crash every day that I let Adobe® Flash® get busy in it, then I'd lobby Apple™ to agree with you, but the Macintosh™ and even more so the iPad™ are platforms that are intended to just work for the non-technical user. Programs that crash aren't welcome.

I was actually happy to see that blue brick yesterday. Furthermore, on my Macintosh™ I have the ClickToFlash plug-in installed to guard my browser from running any Flash® that I don't require to accomplish my task. For sites that make heavy use of Flash®, I have created a Fluid instance to isolate it from my other browser windows. And if you don't mind me twisting the knife one more time before I go, Adobe® owes Macintosh™ users the same speed of execution as Windows® users, not the slow CPU-sucking experience that we get.

Now, if Flash® were Open-Source, then the nerds of the world could lend a hand and fix it up for you. At least Apple™'s closed-source OS and application software is good and fast, and while it's not cheap, neither is it expensive. Adobe® Flash® is merely free. That's not enough.

So, to summarize: If Adobe® wants respect, it will have to be earned by providing something worth having.

• 744 Days Ago
• 01/28/2010

open standards

I think its more a commitment to open standards on the web and not wanting to be beholden to any other companies proprietary software.

• 744 Days Ago
• 01/28/2010

kill proprietary "standards"

Flash became a de facto standard during a period when there was no defined way to play video on the web.  Now that there's HTML5 it's better for everyone (except Adobe) if the Web moves to that.  Having to depend on Adobe to create a flash implementation for each new platform is unworkable, and the sooner Apple kills Flash the better.

• 744 Days Ago
• 01/28/2010

Excuses

There are a lot of excuses for why Apple doesn't include Flash. It's a CPU hog, true. It's a security risk, also true. Like all good corporations Apple is not, as has been suggested, primarily motivated by creating a good user experience; it is motivated by profit. The profit motive is, then, the best explanation. Apple refuses to include Flash because doing so would encourage more developers to target that platform instead of their own. That said, I do wish they would include it anyway - the claim that they provide the full internet experience just isn't true. My old Windows based smartphone, an HTC something-or-other, ran flash for crying out loud.

• 743 Days Ago
• 01/29/2010

Closed Box

I use my IPOD and ITUNES every day, but I do realize that I have been caught in a cosmetic trap. While these products are great, they are not perfect, mainly because of the closed box mentality that has always existed at Apple. Despite Apple’s brilliant designs, the fact that they never really allowed for outside developers to get inside the box, limited Apple’s introduction to the business and scientific community. The app builder is a great thing, but still doesn’t open up web apps as it could. IPAD will sell well, and it will be very popular, but its beauty, like the beauty of other Apple products, will hide some of its proprietary closed systems.

• 743 Days Ago
• 01/29/2010

Battery life

Flash is so processor-intensive, I think the battery drain is the primary concern. Especially considering that safari is one of the quasi-background apps...if you have a page loaded who's say, layout or navigation system is flash-based, simply reading a long article on the page is going to suck the batteries big time. Not to mention if you switch to fire off a txt or e-mail, when you come back safari doesn't have to reload that page, I'm wondering if it isn't still running as a background process (and potentially killing your batteries dry).

It's all about the best user experience for the greatest number of people at apple. They could easily implement it, but the benefits don't outweigh the overall negative experience of short battery life, crashes, slowdown of system responsiveness, etc. And like the earlier poster said, you wouldn't associate those with poor flash site programmers, you would just have a negative iPhone experience.

• 743 Days Ago
• 01/29/2010

No Flash. Not now; not ever

Puh-lease. Zzzzz...

NO FLASH on iPod/iPhone/iPad.

Don't need it. Don't want it.

• 743 Days Ago
• 01/29/2010

Mute argument

The comments clearly show that those who know do not want Flash! I have to agree for all the reasons stated and also that I would like to see HTML5 take over

• 743 Days Ago
• 01/29/2010

But it is true

If Apple didn't block Flash then there would be tens of thousands of developers that could develop rich applications for the iPhone/iPad that Apple would not be able to profit from through the App Store - that is just a fact.

But it is also a fact that the "App Store filter" keeps unstable, undesirable, and just plain stupid applications from getting through.  The overall average quality of applications on Apple devices would surely drop significantly if they were to allow Flash apps.

• 741 Days Ago
• 01/31/2010

Wow...

More Kool-Aid anyone?...

There are some bad flash apps around just like there are $0.99 iPood Apps that should be FREEware because they are still pretty sad even after getting through the Apple approval gauntlet... pinwheels and waiting...

• 740 Days Ago
• 02/01/2010

answer

proprietarism

• 736 Days Ago
• 02/05/2010

It's probably about controlling mobile video

It's interesting to see the emotion around the question of Flash on the iPhone and iPad. In the early days of the Internet, there were many potential competitors to Flash but none of the other products did a good job of delivering multimedia over the Internet so people used Flash and as a result, it's possible to deliver good multimedia on the Internet today. It's hard to see why people would be angry about that. Certainly, you can complain about performance, bugs and advertising with Flash but it's hard to see why people should be angry at a technology that has created lots of jobs, and enabled lots of creative expression.

There certainly are issues with battery life, performance and bugs in Flash but I think the fundamental reason that Flash is not on the iPhone and iPad is video. Steve Jobs wants to control media delivery on the Internet and Flash Video is a primary competitor so Steve Jobs wants to do whatever he can to prevent Flash from becoming strong with mobile devices.

My impression is that YouTube added MPEG support to their web site as part of their deal to get on the iPhone.

It's impressive that Apple can take the high ground by limiting the choices of the users of their devices. It's tells us a lot about the perception of the Adobe brand vs the Apple brand.

I think people should demand support for all the important media types in particular Flash provides a very useful balance to the patent fueled oligopoly of MPEG Licensing Authority.

• 722 Days Ago
• 02/19/2010

It goes deeper

Online video is in its infancy. What Flash offers, which is only beginning to be utilized, is interactivity WITHIN the video. Hot spots, events, user interactions, etc. all enhance the experience and promise gamers, shoppers and viewers an experience beyond simply watching something play. HTML5 sounds interesting, but can only replace the precise and powerful interactivity of Flash if it offers all the same controls to media developers.

• 165 Days Ago
• 08/30/2011

Apple Explained Why

Apple explained why Flash has been excluded from iOS devices in Jobs's Thoughts on Flash memo. The largest reason cited: Flash is designed in such a way that it cannot access the expanded UI APIs on the platform -- including the accessibility APIs. Those needing the accessibility enhancements to deal with the web would be forever "shut out" of Flash web apps.

Apple has made one interesting compromise: they now allow Flash apps to be distributed via the iOS App Store. Adobe released software earlier this summer that allows apps to be packaged this way. As with an other App Store app, developers can choose to charge a fee for their app (Apple collects 30%) or to have their app available free for anyone who wishes to download it. I had expected to see a "gold rush" of Flash in the iOS App Store, but that hasn't been the case.

There are now over 50,000 native iOS apps developed specifically for the iPad. All of the vendors that Adobe employee Adrian Ludwig cited in his January 2010 post have either provided an HTML5 website, iOS applications, or both. Apple no longer ships Flash on its new laptop and desktop computers (although it can be downloaded and installed by anyone). Click-to-Flash browser plugins are quite common for Windows and Mac computers. They allow users to only run the Flash code they want to run; Flash-based advertising has become a singularly useless way to promote a products or services.

Apple has been phenomenally successful with the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. This quarter, they will have sold over a quarter-billion total iOS devices. Any website owners wishing to provide a universal solution cannot use Flash. Adobe itself has recognized this problem; they now provide a Flash to HTML5 code-generation tool. Flash usage on the web is in serious decline.

The big winners of the Flash-wars are those users needing accessibility aids. HTML5 code is transparent; computer vendors can provide adaptation accessories to aid in the use of browsers. The other winners are the users of Apple's handheld devices. Apple makes some great apps, but the tremendous number of quality third-party applications available for so many niches of computing is truly amazing. Despite arguments to the contrary from Adobe and other Flash-supporters, Apple has delivered a superior user experience.