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Debating Immortality - 2

Continued from page 1

By Aubrey de Grey

Wednesday, November 30, 2005

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This approach seems to be most promising. The technique employed by homo sapiens involved no alterations to their anatomy or genetics, only the use of large prostheses. These "machines" are essentially the same design when built to carry one organism or many; so they should be rather easy to adapt for porcine use, despite the anatomical differences between the two species. Further, homo sapiens has automated nearly all the operating procedures of these machines, so that a method for the pig passenger to express its desired destination may be all that is needed to complete the design.

This, however, brings me to perhaps the greatest challenge to either my proposal or yours -- namely, item six in your list of reasons why pigs remain so obstinately ground-dwelling. Pigs are well known to be among the more intelligent mammalian species. And it is a sad fact that some of the brightest among us are inclined to presume that everyone else is stupid -- so that when someone articulates an idea they do not consider obviously correct they tend to dismiss it -- sometimes even ridicule it -- without bothering to familiarize themselves with the details. (I once even encountered an American believed he could outdo an Englishman at sarcasm!)

As I'm sure you agree (and as I duly noted in my demolition of their piece in the same issue), your so-called coauthors in EMBO reports are conspicuous examples of this flaw. (Another case would be a learned immunologist's presumption that the word "allotopic" is merely a careless misspelling of the immunological term "allotypic," when, in fact, "allotopic" can be looked up in, for example, PubMed.)

These individuals are also prone to resist debate on such matters, perhaps out of a subconscious reluctance to risk the possibility of being wrong. Therefore, I fear that the intended beneficiaries of your efforts may, because of their intelligence, spurn this chance to improve their lot. They may even refuse to entertain debate on whether the "engineering solution" we offer them will work. (After all, the term "pig-headed" was not coined for nothing.)

I am confident that this can be overcome, however. The clear feasibility of adapting for porcine use a technique used to such great effect by another mammalian species can only be denied for so long. Media exposure of the absurdity of the naysayers' position will bring the public around soon enough. Such tunnel vision cannot delude people for long, no matter how great the authority of its proponent. We all meet our match some time. In particular, your characteristic eloquence on this matter will surely suffice to sway the occasional billionaire to your cause, thereby circumventing the NIH conservatism you so rightly deplore.

Best of luck!

Cheers,
Aubrey de Grey

Comments

  • Great Reply
    What a well crafted response.
    Rate this comment: 12345
    Guest (Jack)
    11/30/2005
    Posts:1
  • Debating Immortality - 2
    An excellent reply.  Aubrey de Grey has again exposed the arrogant BS of his detractors.  Why do these people so fear the scientific investigation of these ideas??
    Rate this comment: 12345
    Guest (Mike Yeakey)
    11/30/2005
    Posts:1
    • The guys is good
      Im impressed! Well crafted indeed.
      Rate this comment: 12345
      Guest (Greg Balaze)
      11/30/2005
      Posts:1
    • debating immortality-2
      can you help me im doing a project and its our semester exam for my accounting class and I was thinking if you can answer these questions for me
      1. What is the new emerging technology?
      2. What industry will thnew emerging technology effect?(medical, Agricultural, Computer, Manufactoring, etc...)
      3. In your opinion will this technology be beneficial or not to the industry and Why?
      4. In your Opinion will this technology bebeneficial or not to us as a society and why? 
      Can you give me more info on this subject.
         Thatll be great and appreciating for you to help me. Thank you any way for trying. Bye.
      Rate this comment: 12345
      Guest (David )
      12/07/2005
      Posts:1
  • Done
    I think this mocking tangent is finished.  Theres no progress being made here.  Is there any intelligent debate looking at the feasibility of this topic?
    Rate this comment: 12345
    Guest (Noel)
    11/30/2005
    Posts:1
    • Immortality 2
      Aubrey de Grey 2 - Richard Miller 0
      Rate this comment: 12345
      Guest (J Sardina)
      11/30/2005
      Posts:1
    • Mocking Tangent Finished???
      I sure hope not! My thanks to Dr. Miller and Dr. de Grey both, for bringing some levity to this dreary and seemingly never ending war of attrition on aging and death.

      Let us never forget that this is not only a war of engineering and science but moreover a psychological war for hearts and minds as well.

      Thanks for the moral booster.

      A Loyal Troop,

      Frank Rummel
      Rate this comment: 12345
      Guest (Frank Rummel)
      12/03/2005
      Posts:1
  • on being open but realistic...
    While there is indeed truth in the statements that some of Aubreys ideas may be far from being achieved even in laboratories, but then to dismiss them for this one core reason alone smacks of poor scientific temperament. I think its a great debate that has spawned from his ideas - very relevant to everyone of us, and very exciting and directive as prospective research goals. I think some concrete laboratory attempts are merited next, cause until then the debate status will just remain as it is now - and which is merely play of words with loads of sarcasm and no real gain for anyone. AFor instance, the story behind the proof that the mitochondrial ATPase runs on an electrochemical gradient is proof of this - one may have all the theoretical proofs, but its the proof of experiment which is final. So next step - some real experiments and therapies based on these great pointers!
    Rate this comment: 12345
    Guest (Prashant Mali)
    11/30/2005
    Posts:1
    • Immortality? The down-side
      Even if feasible, which I doubt, immmortality has its drawbacks. Would we want to see Stalin still running the USSR? Other unintended consequences may need some thought. Perhaps a glance at the plot outline of Huxleys book After Many a Summer . .  will be revealing in this context. Since  the incidence of cancer goes up with age, well probably have to solve that problem first. This could take a while.
      Rate this comment: 12345
      Guest (David Kessel)
      01/02/2006
      Posts:1
  • Typical
    Throughout history, the scientific establishment has continually scoffed at "new" ideas that went against the prevailing dogma.  Were it not for freethinkers throughout history, we'd still be at the center of the universe, assessing personality through phrenology, and curing all manner of ills with the tried and true bleeding treatment.  Will Mr. de Grey be proven to be the most prescient scientist of our time or one of the world's great crackpots remains to be seen.  I for one commend his ideas and convictions--both of which I hope he pursues with vigor. 
    Rate this comment: 12345
    Guest (saunderscc)
    01/15/2006
    Posts:1
    • HELA'f a Spat
      Goals that do not defy the laws of physics, and which are desired strongly enough, will be achieved.  Extending human life indefinitely meets both criteria.

      No prescience is required to know this, only science and an awareness of accelerated evolution driven by humankind.
      Rate this comment: 12345
      Guest (Robert Armas)
      01/22/2006
      Posts:1
  • Easy win for Aubrey de Grey
    He shouldn't even have bothered to write a response.
    Rate this comment: 12345

    Nabukadnezar
    04/03/2007
    Posts:4
    Avg Rating:
    5/5

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