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March 2007

Hell and Hydrogen

Continued from page 1

By David Talbot

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Romm reminds us of the growing scientific consensus: we must quickly reduce greenhouse-gas emissions to avoid the worst effects of global warming. Therefore, Romm argues, the job of political leaders is clear. Among other things, they must rapidly adopt tighter efficiency standards for homes, offices, and industry; mandate strict increases in automobile fuel economy, which means widespread adoption of ultra-efficient cars, including hybrids; and build as many wind and solar plants as possible, while cautiously expanding nuclear power. Romm even argues that we could cut nationwide carbon dioxide emissions by two-thirds without increasing anyone's annual electric bill. He cites California's three-decade record of aggressive investment in cleaner energy technologies and energy-efficiency programs. When these investments are amortized, costs stay flat while power consumption and carbon dioxide emissions plunge. Today, Romm writes, a Californian has an electric bill no larger than the average American's but generates just one-third the carbon dioxide.

The reason hydrogen-powered cars would produce more carbon dioxide emissions than regular cars starts with the fact that it takes energy to create hydrogen. One way to produce hydrogen is to extract it directly from fossil fuels; indeed, a 2004 National Academy of Sciences study predicted that fossil fuels would be the main source of hydrogen for "several decades." The other way is to split water molecules using electricity. Naturally, BMW talks up this approach, envisioning electricity that would ultimately be supplied by renewable sources. BMW brochures feature the Hydrogen 7 parked in front of wind turbines and shiny photovoltaic arrays. But renewable sources furnish only 2 percent of the world's electricity (not counting hydropower's 16 percent). Coal, by contrast, supplies 39 percent--and is the worst emitter of carbon dioxide, watt for watt. Clearly, a great use for renewable power is to replace coal power. But is it worthwhile to divert even a small part of it to the task of manufacturing hydrogen?

According to Romm's analysis, the math for hydrogen cars simply doesn't work out. Burning coal to generate one megawatt-hour of electricity produces about 2,100 pounds of carbon dioxide. It follows that one megawatt-hour of renewable power can avert those emissions. Using that electricity to make hydrogen would yield enough fuel for a fuel-cell car to travel about 1,000 miles, Romm says. But driving those 1,000 miles in a gasoline-­powered car that gets 40 miles per gallon would produce just 485 pounds of carbon dioxide. In this sense, Romm says, a vehicle powered by hydrogen fuel cells would indirectly create four times the carbon dioxide emissions of today's most efficient gasoline cars.

And the numbers for the Hydrogen 7 are worse, because it burns hydrogen. Combustion produces thrilling torque, but it's far less efficient than fuel-cell technology. Also counting against the Hydrogen 7 is the fact that it stores hydrogen as a liquid; chilling hydrogen and compressing it into liquid form consumes more energy than storing it as a compressed gas. "It's safe to say this is a pointless activity," Romm says. "BMW has managed to develop the least efficient conceivable vehicle that you could invent."

BMW's new car is a marvelous piece of engineering. But it is also a distraction from the real issues: we must burn less fossil fuel and reduce our greenhouse-gas emissions today. Innovative automakers like BMW should turn their remarkable skills to making cars that are more efficient--such as BMW's new 118d economy hatchback, which on average gets 50 miles to the gallon. But the Hydrogen 7 is hardly the "new standard of sustainable pollutant-free mobility" that BMW proclaims. Draeger's offer is one we would be wise to refuse.

Hell and High Water: Global Warming--the Solution and the Politics--and What We Should Do
By Joseph J. Romm William Morrow, 2007, $24.95

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Comments

  • Hydrogen Myth
    rhapsodyinglue on 03/12/2007 at 3:28 PM
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    I find it amazing that the myth of a hydrogen economy can persist so long.  It is a true shame that here in California, a state blessed with a multitude of easily tapped renewable sources of energy, so much effort and money is wasted on the idea of a widespread hydrogen infrastructure.

    The learning/technology curve of batteries makes it very obvious that the EV world will come far sooner and at far less of a cost than a hydrogen based world.
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    • Re: Hydrogen Myth
      ssargent on 03/13/2007 at 8:05 AM
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      What about nuke power?  the high temperature of a reactor makes hydrogen production more efficient.

      hydrogren might be a component of the energy future if nuclear power is a major component of our energy future.  unless we start building plants right now because we'll need a lot of them and they take a long time to build and come online, hydrogen is guarenteed not to happen.
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      • Re: Hydrogen Myth
        rhapsodyinglue on 03/13/2007 at 3:02 PM
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        I don't know as much about the proposed use of nuclear driven thermal/chemical processes for hydrogen generation.  From what little I have read I assume that the technologies will likely yield higher efficiencies than using electricity to generate hydrogen.

        However... is the efficiency of nuclear generated hydrogen, distributed through an as yet nonexistent infrastructure and converted into electric power for cars in fuel cells (cells which are as yet way to costly), more efficient than using that same high heat from nuclear plants to generate electricity directly to be used to charge highly efficient and currently available batteries to power cars?

        Where is the gain of putting hydrogen in the loop even considering nuclear plants?  Isn't it still less efficient overall and far more costly to develop?  Anyone??? Am I missing something?
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        • Re: Hydrogen Myth
          Gypsy_EV on 03/13/2007 at 6:58 PM
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          You are missing the fact that an all electric car would have so little maintenance that no incentive would exist to replace cars that had 200K miles on them.  Just redo the interior and door hinges and it would be good for another 200K.  Some of the research on Internal Permanent Magnet (IPM) Motors suggest that an efficiency of >90% is possible.  One of the companies developing them claimed a 1.2 million hour MTBF. (Mean Time Between Failures) With no need for most of the equipment that goes with an ICE or transmission that could make a car very cheep and very long lasting.  Something the auto industry does not want.  Also service stations would become a thing of history as the local eating establishment could easily set up a parking meter like charging station.   No one in the Auto Industry wants that either.  That is why Hydrogen is even being looked at.  Expensive cars that still need to go to service stations and would still need service.  
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          • Re: Hydrogen Myth
            rhapsodyinglue on 03/13/2007 at 9:32 PM
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            I think Americans' love of new cars would be quite sufficient to keep car companies in business.  We end up shipping lots of still perfectly driveable used cars overseas.  Repair shops might take an economic hit, however, if electrics do end up significantly reducing maintenance costs as many claim.  And even if there were high speed charging stations along interstates... most city gas stations would probably be out of business.  Of course it would only be logical for Starbucks to buy all of them... I hate it when I have to cross the street for my double soy frap.

            I still would be interested if anyone has comments on nuclear plant generated hydrogen and any potential economic advantages that has over electric grid distribution and batteries.  Any proponents???
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          • Re: Hydrogen Myth
            7point62by39 on 03/29/2007 at 12:12 PM
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            Gypsy:  What parts on a car do you think wear out in 200k miles of operation? 

            Bearings
            Brakes
            Tierods
            Bushings
            Switches
            Glass (chips and scratches)
            Gages
            Foam
            Paint
            Tires
            RUST
            Good lord, everything breaks by then...

            The only thing that doesn’t wear out in 200k is the ENGINE! Modern IC engines/transmissions are incredibly long lived and some companies boast a 100k mile drive train warrantee, this would only be economical if they last a really, really long time.  A diesel engine can routinely go for 300k miles with no major overhaul, just ask truckers.

            If the electric motor lasts perhaps 500k miles you still have EVERY THING ELSE ON THE CAR to deal with.  Why would this "cheaper, longer lasting" car be any different in design from what we have now?  Cars have more components than just "door hinges" and "interior". To me, a certified mechanic and Mechanical Engineer, this is total absurdity. Obviously you know nothing of car repair or automotive design.  But anyway...

            People fundamentally don't take care of their cars, and they drive into each other.  Service centers IMHO will enjoy business as usual and will hardly need to change their maintenance training.  Body shops will be just as well off.

            You might say, "but all the "old" systems that go along with IC engines will not be needed."  I beg to differ; what about A/C, and power steering?  Okay, you say that this could all be 'electrified' How does electricity compress refrigerant, how does electricity pressurize hydraulic fluid? You might need a pump, and pumps have a lovely tendency to wear out.  Perhaps all these things can be redesigned to have more longevity. IC vehicles right now are at their apex of engineering refinement, they are as good and cheap as they will ever be.  Any change to this epitome of design will surely be reflected as a cost increase to the consumer in at least the short-term.  And the laws of economics will be the only determinant of what people will spend hard earned money on. 

            You say "How long is the short term"? Well seeing that IC engines have been continually evolving since about 1900, we have seen 107 years of refinement to get to where we are.  The engine technology we run with right now dates back to the 1960's.  Yes we have PLC's to control the engine now but twin cams, 4valves/cylinder, fuel injection, alloy blocks and cylinder heads were all products of the 60's, designed to create tremendous power, far more per unit of displacement than we see now.  A modern desire to lower pollution has sidelined maximum power for minimum pollution.  I would expect many years of R and D until we see a cheap and feasible EV, something that the mass-market will embrace.  

            I totally agree with the notion that electric cars of the way of the future, we need to learn about batteries; storage and charging.  This is the key to energy independence.  We know how to get renewable electricity, let’s just put it to the road. In the mean time you can look forward to enjoying engineering perfection as you hear the quiet hum of the tried and true IC engine in your corolla as you drive to work.
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            • Re: Hydrogen Myth
              Elroch on 03/29/2007 at 4:00 PM
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              The only myth here is that hydrogen has no future. I am sure there was some yokel chewing on a straw who stated similar views about the first cars powered by internal combustion engines. The blinkered statement that hydrogen powered cars have no future is as much horse manure as the same statement about modern cars a hundred years ago.

              Specifically, the gaping chasm in the author's argument is that he says since renawables only supply 2% of current energy they will never be significant. The simple fact is that there is enough solar energy to supply all human needs: it just needs to be harnessed on a stupendous scale. And the only thing that could threaten this happening eventually, is that we harness fusion ourselves.

              Either of these events will make hydrogen transport or something equally renewable, universal within 100 years.

              The one thing about the long term future that has always remained the same is that it is very different to today.
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              • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                Gurthang on 03/30/2007 at 1:26 PM
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                Baring some incredible breakthrough pure H2 systems suffer not only from problems of where you get it from but also in how you store it. The best systems of storage out there right now either require too much power to either store (Liquid H2) or release (Metal Hydride storage) and most still suffer from being too big, too heavy, and too expensive. Pick your poison but so far we have nothing that is good enough to leave the lab yet.

                And while we are shooting down pipe dreams on the EV front.. although I have seen some recient prommise in battery technologies. (A123's lion systems for example)  So what if that motor has a 500k mile expected lifetime if battery system needs replacement every 80k - 100k. And you know any battery system that gives a mid-sized car a 200-300 mile range is not going to be an acceptible $1000 to replace.. EVER.

                Don't get me wrong... I think EV cars are a great concept.  But honestly uneless you can get power put in the highways and other large roads with a much smaller battery for "local" driving. Without that I don't see EV cars as ever becomming acceptible in the near term.

                In the near term some form of Hybrid ICE still looks like the best bet.  The trick is getting the costs down.  Maybe dump electric storage for a pneumatic or hydraulic power boost/storage system.
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                • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                  modotx on 03/31/2007 at 9:35 AM
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                  Even though the battery or batteries may cost $1000.00 to replace after 80000 miles the savings on oil and air filter changes will far outstrip that cost. 

                  Lets assume 80000 miles between battery replacements vs 400 miles between oil changes and 1000 miles between air filter changes.

                  Your assertion: Battery replacement = $1000.00 US
                  Replaced professionally
                  22.00/oil change = $4400.00 US (200 oil changes)
                  12.00/air filter = $ 960.00 US (80 filter changes)
                  Total Cost       = $5300.00 US
                  Savings          = $4300.00 US

                  DIY (Do It Yourself(er))
                  10.00/oil change = $2000.00 US (200 oil changes)
                  8.00/air filter = $ 640.00 US (80 filter changes)
                  Total Cost       = $2600.00 US
                  Savings          = $1600.00 US

                  So over the life of the battery one would still save nearly 2/3's the cost of oil and air filter changes even if you are a DIY.  And never mind the time saved regardless of whether you are or are not a DIY.

                  Also, the cost of changing the oil and filter will continue to increase.  While the cost of batteries will most likely drop.  Also, the ranges that cars will be able to go on a battery charge will increase over time and the length of time to recharge a battery will decrease as well.  Besides, for commuting purposes 300 miles is more than enough and the occassional extended excursion.  Consider this as well, the number of over-tired drivers would also be dramaticaly reduced if they were forced sleep overnight, thereby reducing the potential for accidents to happen.  Another advantage would be that the bus and train industry would probably once again begin to fluorish.

                  Given the figures above, I think switching over to EVs is even more cost effective using technology available now.  We no longer have the excuse of "Its not economical" to hide behind to not switch.
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                  • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                    bmn on 04/02/2007 at 11:40 AM
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                    lotsa problems here. first, the batteries won't last that assumed 80K - not with the tech we've got today. second, batteries still do not have the power density capacity to make a practical car. my commute is 120 miles round trip daily. no EV is going to do that - not even the ones that are insufficiently safe to store under your seat in large quantities (think burning laptops). love the idea of the electrics, but until we get a battery technology that is several orders of magnitude better in power density, with better release curve characterisics than anything on the market today, and as safe as a Duracell or Energizer, they are dead in the water.
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                    • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                      jim_b on 04/10/2007 at 12:56 AM
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                      Tesla has an admittedly high-end car with those "unsafe" batteries for sale now with 250 mile range (surround those batteries with lots of safety measures).  The have a less expensive sedan in the works.

                      Phoenix Motorcars has small SUT with 130 mile range for sale to fleets today, with SUV with 250 mile range planned for late this year/early next year.

                      Pure BEVs can definitely provide >120mi range and if you must have longer range consider a series hybrid like GM's Volt concept car that is a much better long term solution than today's hybrids.
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                  • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                    mvoigt01 on 04/02/2007 at 1:37 PM
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                    This would all be fine, except the battery cost is more like $25,000.

                    If someone out there can tell me where you can get a LI pack, to power a vehicle for less than $10,000 US, let me know, cause I can sell millions of them.
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                    • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                      jim_b on 04/10/2007 at 1:34 AM
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                      With volume production, one advanced Li-Ion battery company has already indicated they can hit price target of $330-$500/kWh.  With all the companies competing in this space right now, a very near term cost of $300/kWh seems reasonable.  The size of the battery pack depends on vehicle characteristics and desired range, but 40kWh pack should give >130mi range for small SUV.  So that means battery could cost $12,000 today. 

                      That's still not cheap, but there's already suggestions out there that battery prices could go well below $300/kWh in the next several years.  US Advanced Battery Consortium (USABC) just put out an RFP that sets target of $150/kWh for BEV-type battery, with a long term target of $100/kWh.  Are those targets reasonable?  I don't know.  Depends on how informed you think they are and what you think their agenda might be (put pressure on battery companies v. prove that batteries can't meet their needs).  If those numbers are reasonable, that's $6,000/$4,000 for a battery pack with what looks like (from the other specs) a >100,000 mile life. 

                      Also, at 100K the battery isn't really dead, it just has reduced capacity (typical graph I've seen measures cycle life as point where capacity falls below 80% of original).  That means whether the battery needs to be replaced depends on the range that is needed.
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                  • Re: Hydrogen Myth
                    gsteele531 on 04/16/2007 at 8:12 PM
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                    Just couldn't let the post by Modotx pass; oil changes every 400 miles?  Air filter changes every 1000 miles?  Where does he live, in a dust storm?  Battery replacement $1,000?  As they say, figures don't lie, but liars can figure.  If we do the CORRECT math, oil changes are 7,500 miles apart, and air filters are changed at 15,000 mile intervals in the dustiest of environments, which I'll use for argument's sake.  Now:

                    Over 80,000 miles, we have 10 or 11 oil changes and 5 air filter changes.  Oil changes at $22 and filter changes at $12 make the maintenance cost $220 to $242 plus $60, so let's use $300.  Battery replacement of a 40 KWh lion battery at current prices is about $20,000.  Whaddya know - the cost of "maintenance" is $19,700 more for the electrocar over the 80,000 miles.  Whoops.

                    But let's add in the cost of gas, at 20 miles/gallon and $2.50 per gallon, to be fair. That's 4000 gallons of gas, and $10,000 to buy it.  Still a $9,700 premium.  Oh, yes - there's cost for the electricity to run the 80,000 miles; at the current  ~$.15/KWh, assuming 150 mile range for the battery pack = 80000/150 (number of charges) * 40KWh (per charge) * .15/KWh.  Oops, another inconvenient truth - $3,200 more, bringing us up to a $12,900 premium to operate the electrocar, assuming 100% electrical conversion efficiency.  Mebbe not.

                    That's maintenance-based.  How about acquisition cost?  Well, simple; just sell electrocars for $12,900 less than 20 mpg gas cars, and you're all set.  Given that the cheapest gas cars are about $12,900 after the haggling, all we need is for the government to "give" us one, and we're home free.    And since the government gets their money from butterfly nets in space, there should be NO tax impact to replace the 250 million US cars with free electrocars at all . . .

                    Despite the above, there is an excellent reason to move away from gasoline engines: the psychopathic murderers that we are enriching and enabling with a billion dollars a day in imported oil.  But let's be clear: it's a strategic, long-term national security issue, not an economic or environmental one. 

                    But it won't be as much fun; who wants to go to the drag races and just hear Hmmmm... as the cars head for the end of the quarter mile.  And, of course, that's a higher priority than keeping mass murderers at bay . . .
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        • Re: Hydrogen Myth
          Photomabob on 04/02/2007 at 3:05 PM
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          In the 60's Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) representatives entreated at public gatherings that if we would pass Proposition 9, the "nuclear initiative," they would actually remove the meters from our houses as electricity would be "too cheap to meter."

          They shrugged off questions about nuclear waste, saying it was a minor problem that science would quickly solve.

          Now, 50 years later, we still have no permanent, safe place to put that waste. On account of economics, no new plants have been built in this country for 20 years.  It costs over 10 times more to dismantle a plant after its useful lifetime than it did to build the plant in the first place (a cost PG&E is now passing to its ratepayers), and there is still no safe permanent place to put the waste.  What is cheap about that?
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          • Re: Hydrogen Myth
            Photomabob on 04/02/2007 at 3:08 PM
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            And, you can't get insurance for your household against nuclear mishaps.  No company will touch that one.
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  • hydrogen
    thegreatest on 03/14/2007 at 1:35 PM
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    definitely nuclear power must be in the equation and new technologies in producing hydrogen is available such as the use of algae. unfortunately for all of us. there really is no choice but to switch. in the end. there will be no more gas.
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    • Re: hydrogen
      riffcon on 03/15/2007 at 11:18 AM
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      Just a couple of comments on this subject. If there is no co2 problem there is no carbon supply issue for hundreds of years. The vast stores of heavy oil, coal and methane (not to mention oil shales and methane hydrates) can supply reduced carbon to the world at prices not much higher than today's prices far into the future.
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    • Re: hydrogen
      abcarterjr on 03/27/2007 at 1:53 PM
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      Solar distillation of canal water from an irrigation canal that is higher in elevation
      than a nuclear power plant, could furnish a gravity fed process stream for thermo-catalytic
      seperation into H2 & O2 using byproduct heat
      available from nuclear tubo-electric power
      generation.  This is called thermal cracking
      of distilled water to produce hydrogen. The
      byproduct oxygen could be uilized in hydroponic
      facilities.
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      • Re: hydrogen
        narlin on 03/29/2007 at 2:11 AM
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        Thermal Cracking can be used for separating hydrogen from fossil fuels such as coal.  It does not separate the water itself.

        The point of this article, however, was that immediate reductions in CO2 emissions are needed, and the best way to do that is to "pick the low hanging fruit" of efficiency and increased use of photovoltics, and wind power.  All things currently within our technical knowhow and budgets.
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        • Re: hydrogen
          bmn on 04/02/2007 at 11:43 AM
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          the problem with the entire article is exactly what you said - it hinges on the "crisis" in CO2. since that is an unproven and highly dubious need, the entire argument collapses.
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    • Re: hydrogen
      Northwest Mariner on 03/30/2007 at 12:08 AM
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      Here is a link to an effort to create hydrogen via separation technologies. Interesting.

      http://www.genoil.net/technologies_allegretto.php
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      • Re: hydrogen
        rhapsodyinglue on 04/02/2007 at 2:49 PM
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        WOW... 55,000G force.  I'm impressed, though that still doesn't rip H atoms off of O... I'm pretty sure.  I assume this is a centrifuge they are suggesting is useful for gas seperation after thermal cracking techniques using extremely high temperatures such as from nuclear reactor???

        I'd still be interested in someone walking me through the numbers of how thermal cracking, hydrogen distribution and fuel cells is (or ever will be) more effecient than using that same thermal energy to create electricity and power cars with batteries (PHEV or pure EV).
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  • ???
    Peregrine on 03/29/2007 at 5:05 AM
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    How much gasoline is left in the world? With ever-growing global consumption rates, we will need a substitute soon.

    Coal-fired power plants are notorious for pollution; it would be very ineffective to produce hydrogen from electricity from coal.

    What about hydrogen from methane?
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  • Methane
    Plataputylus on 03/29/2007 at 8:47 AM
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    Methane should actually be considered a hydrogen delivery fuel.  What makes it cleaner than the other fossil fuels is the ratio of H to C.  We get 2 water molecules for every molecule of CO2.  If an engineer were trying to work out how to effectively densify H2 for storage and delivery, and they came up the the idea of using a single carbon atom to store up to 4 H atoms, that would be seen as a tremendous breakthrough.  There needs to be some rationality to this discussion which has instead taken on the spectre of demagoguery.
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  • LARGE SCALE HYDROGEN CARS WILL NEVER BORN
    Gaetano Marano on 03/29/2007 at 9:59 AM
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    .

    that's absolutely TRUE

    hydrogen is NOT the solution for future cars

    not only for the problems explained in the article, but (first of all) for a VERY SIMPLE reason: ELECTRIC CARS

    many years ago, when the hydrogen cars' research started, the best electric cars was slow, low-range, heavy and very expensive (that mainly due to the big and heavy lead-cell batteries used) but, now, everything is changed

    to-day's Li-Ion batteries are small and (relatively) low cost, so, the cars made with that batteries may have good performances, also, an electric cars is very much simpler than a classic (gasoline, hydrogen, ethanol, etc.) engine's car

    the future electric cars models will have better and smaller ultra-fast-recharge batteries and the price of (both) batteries and cars will fall very quickly due to scale economy

    then, when the H2-cars will be ready for the mass market, they will be too expensive and outdated by small, cheap and reliable electric cars built in millions units (maybe, in China, like to-day's computer, TV, cellphones, etc.)

    another very good reason of the H2-cars' fail vs. the electric cars is the problem and the risks to produce, store, transport and distribute the hydrogen compared with the easy and safe storage of the electricity

    last but not least, the production process and the infrastructures for the electricity in simpler

    only... power plant (or solar cells or wind motors or other sources) >>> electric lines >>> car batteries

    instead of... power plant >>> H2 electrolysis production plant >>> liquid H2 plant >>> H2 transport >>> pressurized or cryogenic storage >>> cars refuel

    EVERYTIME the simpler, cheaper ans safer solution WINS ...and "hydrogen" is NOT that case...

    www.gaetanomarano.it

    .
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    • Re: LARGE SCALE HYDROGEN CARS WILL NEVER BORN
      lkrndu on 03/30/2007 at 10:24 AM
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      Hydrogen CAN be useful, IF it is used together with super-efficient lightweight cars. The reasons come down to multiplying the benefits of using several separate beneficial technologies together in a 'systems' approach.

      Efficient cars + hydrogen fuel + adaptation of power generation / hydrogen production scaled to the system efficiencies  =  better systems performance in terms of fuel consumption and environmental load.

      More detail is available in extensive articles on the RMI (Rocky Mountain Institute) website.

      This is NOT to say that hydrogen can be taken as the panacea. It DOES have it's costs. And in the realities of the present and near future the infrastructural costs and cultural barrier to adoption are considerable. And grave.
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