100 Solar Megawatts

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• Large scale solar Elroch on 01/11/2007 at 9:06 PM

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  The Sahara desert is about 2.25 billion hectares. Even if no more power was available than in Bavaria (in fact peak power is higher and the average is much higher), scaling up the Bavarian project could provide up to around 360 trillion watts of power, far more than the world's current total energy consumption. Only a small amount of the sand available would be needed to provide most of the raw materials for the cells needed. Of course environmental and other considerations would make such projects more limited than their theoretical maximum size, but it is clear that solar energy is a practical large scale energy source for an energy rich future world. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Large scale solar bubba36 on 01/22/2007 at 5:07 PM

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    True enough, but convince those with the checkbooks that PV is where they should put their resources. Until PV is undeniably the best option(Oil at $200? Coal $300/ton? and what about hydro...) we're unlikely to see any substantial movement away from fossil fuels.  I work for an electric Utility in the Pacific Northwest that is using PV today in cost-effective applications, but these applications are limited.  Keep swinging, just don't expect any wholesale movement to renewables until our present sources become too expensive... in dollars, personal risk, or environmental impact. Meanwhile, promote PV and the newer emerging energy technologies where there is economic, social, or environmental justification. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • Re: Large scale solar gman on 03/26/2007 at 12:13 AM

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      That's where carbon taxes or carbon trading comes in.  Dirty energy does not include the true cost of energy, such as pollution and oil wars.  When the true cost of dirty energy is reaslized by penalizing it, all of a sudden, alternative sustainable clean energy becomes competative. A good read is: Lives Per Gallon: The True Cost of Our Oil Addiction by Terry Tamminen and Big Coal: The Dirty Secret Behind America's Energy Future by Jeff Goodell Rate this comment: (Reply)

• Is it all about cost? Redneck on 01/22/2007 at 6:18 PM

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  Are we not moving quickly into renewables because the cost of oil is so cheap in comparison? Or, are we spending trillions of dollars on oil wars to ensure "the system" works? If everyone had a solar panel on their home to power their home, car and small garden would that work out well for "the system"? Add the price of war, oil spill clean-ups, diseased and sick citizens from pollution and then calculate the "cost" in comparison to energy from renewable sources. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Is it all about cost? bubba36 on 01/22/2007 at 6:39 PM

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    If society is willing to accept the cost, the nature of the cost is immaterial, whether it be measured with dollars, the environment, or human lives. I'm not promoting, or defending, either side of the green-v-fossil fuel fight, just pointing out the obvious. I have my own opinions regarding the modern world's energy habits but, like most people, my ability to effect change on a global scale is rather limited.  I just manage my own life so as to be a good steward of the resources I have been afforded, and I encourage and assist others in doing the same. An Arab businessman recently pointed out that the stone age did not end for want of stones.  Similarly, the fossil fuel age will not end when coal and oil vanish, but when society at large demands its end; for whatever reason. One last comment; I recommend we don't look to the Political world for an answer... Politicians of any stripe will likely support whatever will support them, hardly the best choice for a loyal ally in what is sure to be a very long, hard effort. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • Re: Is it all about cost? jfinlayson on 01/29/2007 at 5:00 PM

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      "An Arab businessman" That would be Sheikh Ahmed Zaki Yamani, Saudi oil minister from 1962 to 1986.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zaki_Yamani The wording most often quoted is: "The Stone Age came to an end not for a lack of stone, and the oil age will end, but not for a lack of oil." I'm not sure when he (or anyone else) first said that.  I remember hearing it in 1976 at an Energy seminar (though I don't recall the attribution).  Vinod Khosla thought it was the 1960s (http://www.principalvoices.com/2006/debates/san.francisco/transcript2.html#six).  Another article places it in 1973 (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/trm-crt.nsf/en/rm00114e.html) Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: Is it all about cost? Chad on 05/09/2007 at 5:07 PM

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    We're not moving towards renewables because of just what you said: It's "cheaper" to harvest (if that's a good general word), its cheaper to process, and its where everything is now so change means more money spent to convert to renewable power sources.  People don't want to spend money unless there is an immediate financial gain.  We have lost any foresight and have become too comfortable with what we have; only wanting more if its cheap. Ethanol may be frowned upon by the scientific world, and I agree its not a final answer, but it is a start at getting people to change their ways.  Henry Ford made the Model T to run off ethanol.  Petroleum gas came along, was cheaper, so we forgot about it.  The 70's oil embargo led us back to ethanol, but the embargo conveniently ended at just the right time and we shoved that research in a dark corner again.  (Brazil kept up with it and now produces from locally-grown sugarcane over 90% of their fuel - and continues to cut down the rainforest for more farming and living space).If we can only keep the transition moving, we can finally move to something that will answer all our questions.  But that answer may come in various forms.  Everyone needs to stop concentrating on only one answer and build a combination of such.  Solar, wind, tidal, and geothermal.  They are all there and have been all our lives, and throughout the lives of our grandparents. I have pix of my great-grandparents powering their farm in approx. 1910 with a couple of windmills - electricity wasn't quite the big thing it is now, though. I only hope we can open our eyes to the multiple solutions before it's too late. Rate this comment: (Reply)

• Ok, what about this? screamingmarsupial on 02/06/2007 at 12:48 PM

  Posts: 1

  So this article has me thinking. It was mentioned above that more people should put solar panels on their roofs. What if this was taken to a much higher extreme. States write into law that all new houses have some level of solar panel coverage but all these houses still get connected to the power grid. Then, change the policy where the power company pays you for creating more power than your using. Your power bill would go down and we would be using less fossil fuels as a nation. I realize this is not a complete solution, but it's a step in the right direction. Rate this comment: (Reply)

• legislation or self-regulation gman on 03/26/2007 at 12:31 AM

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  I think having solar pannels on all new construction should be mandatory.  1000W per 1000 s.f.  Solar is effective in all 50 states. The question is, will people do it voluntarily or not, and the answer is no.  Many people need to be forced to do it.  So we need a political solution. Also, it is still expensive and needs some incentives, which can be paid for by carbon taxes.  We need to vote the naysayers of the green movement out of office.  Net metering laws should be established in all 50 states, and excess electricity should be sold on the grid at retail rates.   Corporations say they want to self regulate there carbon emissions by a cap and trade system.  I think all monies generated by a cap and trade system or carbon taxes should subsidize clean and renewable energy resources, particularly setting up PV for low income families who have a tough time making it by. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • 	Re: legislation or self-regulation devassocx on 04/05/2007 at 4:08 PM
    Posts: 19 Avg Rating:	Spoken like a true socialist. All this solar stuff and other alt energy forms are great...when they become economically viable and not before. This whole cycle is just a repeat of the '70s. Study history and you can see what will ultimately happen and you will find its all about the economics. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • Re: legislation or self-regulation rhapsodyinglue on 04/05/2007 at 4:54 PM

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      Many important technologies have been heavily subsidized by governments during their development.  Integrated circuits and computers are a prime example.  This field got massive amounts of subsidies in the US because it was considered vital for national security and in many Asian countries as a way of developing job creating industries. Too much subsidy can lead to undesirable economic distortions, such as excess capacity in the semiconductor segment.  But the current level of subsidy of green energy, or even much higher, I believe is easily justified by both environmental and national security reasons, and we are no where near the point where governments are creating wasteful excess capacity of green energy. Rate this comment: (Reply)

  • Re: legislation or self-regulation rhapsodyinglue on 04/05/2007 at 4:44 PM

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    There is no spare capacity for PV production predicted in the near future.  Requiring all new construction to have PV would exceed current production capacity and would end up placing PV in areas that would receive less sunshine.  With the current system of subsidizing solar panels, the market economics will tend to get more of them in the very sunny areas where they will do the most good reducing GHG. Rate this comment: (Reply)

    • Re: legislation or self-regulation toharsha on 01/02/2008 at 3:54 AM

      Posts: 1

      move to green energy is a step being taken now for a better future. Legislation or not, green energy is the future. We have to make it a point to support green energy everywhere. If we want it we have to create a demand for it.The supply will come automatically whether there are legislations/regulations or not. Green energy can sustain especially solar as it will be the only energy whose raw material is free and is available every DAY continuously. We have already wasted a century supporting the oil industry which made more harm to us than its benifits. So make it a point to support green energy and create a demand. Your money will not be put into oil wars. Rate this comment: (Reply)