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Wednesday, November 30, 2005

Debating Immortality - 2

Biologist Aubrey de Grey still believes humans could live indefinitely -- or at least that it's worth discussing.

By Aubrey de Grey

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In March 2005, Technology Review published "Do You Want to Live Forever?," an article by renowned physician and writer Sherwin Nuland that took a deeply skeptical view of the claims by Aubrey de Grey, a theoretical biologist at the University of Cambridge who believes that human aging can be "fixed." Our story elicited much lively debate among readers, including Dr. de Grey, his followers, and his critics.

Yesterday, TechnologyReview.com published an open letter by Richard Miller, MD and professor of pathology at the University of Michigan, responding to de Grey's theories (in a decidedly humorous vein). This is de Grey's response to Miller's letter. -- Editors.

Dear Rich,

How delightful to hear from you. I am so heartened that you have chosen to dissociate yourself publicly from the anti-SENS sentiment recently expressed by some of our colleagues in EMBO reports [the November 2005 issue of this molecular biology journal published a letter critical of de Grey's theories, signed by 30 or so scientists, as well as a reply by de Grey. -- Editors.]. I hope you will succeed in extracting from them an apology for including your name in the list of authors (and so outrageously parodying your inestimable writing style). Perhaps, since your name was midway down a long author list, they thought no one would notice.

What an interesting problem you raise. I confess I had not considered the hardship endured by pigs as a result of their flightlessness, but you articulate it most effectively. I think I can indeed help.

Before addressing the marketing aspect, I feel it is worth examining this problem for alternative solutions that may be even more straightforward than those you list -- and which may be applicable to those unfortunate pigs who are already alive, and so for whom your strategies 1, 2, and 5 are inapplicable. It would surely be best to alleviate as much porcine suffering as possible, so these alternatives would be a definite improvement. Further, since those who might fund your project are also already alive, this might facilitate the marketing of your idea, too.

In considering this question I have adopted the age-old strategy of looking to evolution for clues. Evolution has of course created flying creatures from flightless ones several times. However, most of these processes are thought to have been slow, progressing through long periods of aeronautical semi-competence that far exceed that of contemporary pigs. Moreover, almost all flying species share with birds most of the seven differences from pigs that you list.

However, after much research I have identified a remarkable exception to this pattern.

Amazing though it may seem, the species homo sapiens progressed, about a century ago, from a state of absolute flightlessness (unless we count floating, which you clearly do not) to one of considerable competence at flying -- and they did so over a period of only a few years. I am therefore inclined to look to the methods that our species has adopted, as a starting-point for freeing our porcine friends from their current misery.

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Comments

  • Great Reply
    Guest (Jack) on 11/30/2005 at 8:42 AM
    Posts:
    1
    What a well crafted response.
    Rate this comment: 12345
  • Debating Immortality - 2
    Guest (Mike Yeakey) on 11/30/2005 at 9:31 AM
    Posts:
    1
    An excellent reply.  Aubrey de Grey has again exposed the arrogant BS of his detractors.  Why do these people so fear the scientific investigation of these ideas??
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • The guys is good
      Guest (Greg Balaze) on 11/30/2005 at 11:15 AM
      Posts:
      1
      Im impressed! Well crafted indeed.
      Rate this comment: 12345
    • debating immortality-2
      Guest (David ) on 12/07/2005 at 9:21 AM
      Posts:
      1
      can you help me im doing a project and its our semester exam for my accounting class and I was thinking if you can answer these questions for me
      1. What is the new emerging technology?
      2. What industry will thnew emerging technology effect?(medical, Agricultural, Computer, Manufactoring, etc...)
      3. In your opinion will this technology be beneficial or not to the industry and Why?
      4. In your Opinion will this technology bebeneficial or not to us as a society and why? 
      Can you give me more info on this subject.
         Thatll be great and appreciating for you to help me. Thank you any way for trying. Bye.
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • Done
    Guest (Noel) on 11/30/2005 at 12:21 PM
    Posts:
    1
    I think this mocking tangent is finished.  Theres no progress being made here.  Is there any intelligent debate looking at the feasibility of this topic?
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • Immortality 2
      Guest (J Sardina) on 11/30/2005 at 5:09 PM
      Posts:
      1
      Aubrey de Grey 2 - Richard Miller 0
      Rate this comment: 12345
    • Mocking Tangent Finished???
      Guest (Frank Rummel) on 12/03/2005 at 3:21 PM
      Posts:
      1
      I sure hope not! My thanks to Dr. Miller and Dr. de Grey both, for bringing some levity to this dreary and seemingly never ending war of attrition on aging and death.

      Let us never forget that this is not only a war of engineering and science but moreover a psychological war for hearts and minds as well.

      Thanks for the moral booster.

      A Loyal Troop,

      Frank Rummel
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • on being open but realistic...
    Guest (Prashant Mali) on 11/30/2005 at 8:52 PM
    Posts:
    1
    While there is indeed truth in the statements that some of Aubreys ideas may be far from being achieved even in laboratories, but then to dismiss them for this one core reason alone smacks of poor scientific temperament. I think its a great debate that has spawned from his ideas - very relevant to everyone of us, and very exciting and directive as prospective research goals. I think some concrete laboratory attempts are merited next, cause until then the debate status will just remain as it is now - and which is merely play of words with loads of sarcasm and no real gain for anyone. AFor instance, the story behind the proof that the mitochondrial ATPase runs on an electrochemical gradient is proof of this - one may have all the theoretical proofs, but its the proof of experiment which is final. So next step - some real experiments and therapies based on these great pointers!
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • Immortality? The down-side
      Guest (David Kessel) on 01/02/2006 at 2:37 PM
      Posts:
      1
      Even if feasible, which I doubt, immmortality has its drawbacks. Would we want to see Stalin still running the USSR? Other unintended consequences may need some thought. Perhaps a glance at the plot outline of Huxleys book After Many a Summer . .  will be revealing in this context. Since  the incidence of cancer goes up with age, well probably have to solve that problem first. This could take a while.
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • Typical
    Guest (saunderscc) on 01/15/2006 at 12:00 AM
    Posts:
    1
    Throughout history, the scientific establishment has continually scoffed at "new" ideas that went against the prevailing dogma.  Were it not for freethinkers throughout history, we'd still be at the center of the universe, assessing personality through phrenology, and curing all manner of ills with the tried and true bleeding treatment.  Will Mr. de Grey be proven to be the most prescient scientist of our time or one of the world's great crackpots remains to be seen.  I for one commend his ideas and convictions--both of which I hope he pursues with vigor. 
    Rate this comment: 12345
    • HELA'f a Spat
      Guest (Robert Armas) on 01/22/2006 at 12:00 AM
      Posts:
      1
      Goals that do not defy the laws of physics, and which are desired strongly enough, will be achieved.  Extending human life indefinitely meets both criteria.

      No prescience is required to know this, only science and an awareness of accelerated evolution driven by humankind.
      Rate this comment: 12345
  • Easy win for Aubrey de Grey
    Nabukadnezar on 04/03/2007 at 8:50 PM
    Posts:
    4
    Avg Rating:
    5/5
    He shouldn't even have bothered to write a response.
    Rate this comment: 12345
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