Debating ImmortalityAubrey de Grey believes we can live forever. Gerontologist Richard Miller at the University of Michigan begs to differ.
In March 2005, we published "Do You Want to Live Forever?," a cover story by renowned physician and writer Sherwin Nuland that took a deeply skeptical view of the claims of Aubrey de Grey, a theoretical biologist at the University of Cambridge who believes that human aging can be "fixed." The story elicited outrage not just from de Grey's many partisans, but also from many working biogerontologists who told us we were nuts to waste ink criticizing de Grey's theories. What follows is a letter to de Grey by Richard Miller, a professor of pathology at the University of Michigan and a well-known biogerontologist. Tomorrow, we'll post de Grey's response to his letter. -- Editors.
Jason Pontin Dear Jason: De Grey has challenged gerontologists to debate the merits of the SENS program, and has expressed his opinion that we are now at or near a historical "cusp"; those born after the cusp will be able to stay alive and youthful by adherence to the SENS strategy. Although de Grey's assertions have enjoyed wide circulation in the lay press, at scientific meetings, and in your own journal, it is fair to say that many experienced gerontologists still remain somewhat skeptical about his claims. Nonetheless, his success in developing such a well-regarded plan to solve the aging problem has prompted me to ask for his help on a similarly complex technological challenge. Alas, I have lost Aubrey's phone number, and so I was hoping that Technology Review might be willing to publish this open letter to him, along with these introductory remarks, as a public service to those of us who look forward to hearing his insights into problems of this kind. Best regards, ============================================ Dear Aubrey: I saw you on TV the other day, and was hoping that now that the aging problem has been solved, you might have time to help me in my publicity campaign to solve a similar engineering challenge, one that has been too long ignored by the ultra-conservative, fraidy-cat mainstream scientific community: the problem of producing flying pigs. A theoretical analysis of the problem, using the fastest available modern computers, shows that there are a mere seven reasons why pigs cannot, at present, fly: 1. They do not have wings. 2. They are too heavy to get off the ground. 3. The so-called "law" of gravity. 4. They cannot climb trees. 5. Hair, instead of feathers. 6. They do not wish to fly. 7. They do not tweet. Although I have been too busy in my day-job to find time to work in a laboratory, I have been able to show clearly that these problems can be solved, using an approach I call Plan for Engineered Porcine Aviation, or PEPA.
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Be Sane about Antiaging Science
02/01/2005









Comments
11/29/2005
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mmmm.....
Those guys were fun to clown around with but I dont think I would take thier opinions of biology too seriously.
This kind of thing may be amusing, but really does nothing to help my understanding, as an ignorant lay person, of the relevant issues.
I read Technology Review to help me understand the issues. I read the Onion for humor and satire. This article would be better there.
11/29/2005
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If they have something scientific, I would suppose they will accept the Challenge and try to win the 20.000 $ of the Challenge.
11/29/2005
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Dr. Miller: grant wings using stem cells.
Noel: Too expensive, and too much work. Create a bird-pig hybrid (to ensure no immune respose) and graft the wings to the pig. Now its just a matter of nerves and muscle.
Dr. Miller: reduce cell size to reduce weight
Noel: Increase bouyancy by implanting hydrogen-generating bacteria in a skin sac, to inflant the pigs back.
Etc. Give solutions, not mocking. Tell us what the scientists are doing instead.
PS: I didnt include opportunity cost.
11/30/2005
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IMHO, whats more important about De Greys work is not necessarily whether he identified all the causes of aging and offered realistic cures for them. What is important is that there has been a radical new way of thought about the process of aging. It used to be "something natural" that "just happened" to "everyone". Now its something that is considered a disease like cancer or aids that needs to be fixed.
The problem appears to be that just a few small groups work on this (as compared to other common mortal diseases). Why? Who would have a problem with doubled, tripled, quadrupled life spans? A couple of very powerful groups come to mind...
12/06/2005
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11/29/2005
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Dr. Miller: grant wings using stem cells.
Noel: Too expensive, and too much work. Create a bird-pig hybrid (to ensure no immune respose) and graft the wings to the pig. Now its just a matter of nerves and muscle.
Dr. Miller: reduce cell size to reduce weight
Noel: Increase bouyancy by implanting hydrogen-generating bacteria in a skin sac, to inflant the pigs back.
Etc. Give solutions, not mocking. Tell us what the scientists are doing instead.
PS: I didnt include opportunity cost.
11/30/2005
Posts:1
IMHO, whats more important about De Greys work is not necessarily whether he identified all the causes of aging and offered realistic cures for them. What is important is that there has been a radical new way of thought about the process of aging. It used to be "something natural" that "just happened" to "everyone". Now its something that is considered a disease like cancer or aids that needs to be fixed.
The problem appears to be that just a few small groups work on this (as compared to other common mortal diseases). Why? Who would have a problem with doubled, tripled, quadrupled life spans? A couple of very powerful groups come to mind...
12/06/2005
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11/29/2005
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Perhaps, the ink was actually wasted when Tech Review posted this flimsy rebuttal... Oh, but wait! This isnt even paper. So really, hes just wasting our time.
If De Greys argument is flawed, thats fine. He should provide a counterpoint. Put up, or shut up. Dont patronize De Grey and the readers with nonsense that claims to be a valid view.
11/30/2005
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Perhaps, the ink was actually wasted when Tech Review posted this flimsy rebuttal... Oh, but wait! This isnt even paper. So really, hes just wasting our time.
If De Greys argument is flawed, thats fine. He should provide a counterpoint. Put up, or shut up. Dont patronize De Grey and the readers with nonsense that claims to be a valid view.
11/30/2005
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While I disagree with some of De Greys points that this article would get published when there are serious questions is a black eye to Tech Review.
If you dont or wont ask intelligent questions maybe it would be better to stay quiet. How about a discussion point by point? Is that too hard or too much work for Tech Review?
We may never achive immortality but until we try we will never do it either.
11/29/2005
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Sounds like some people are taking themselves and the authors too seriously.
Read it for what it is . . . two opinionated intellectuals with opposing positions applying their own sense of humor to a common rhetorically “negative” position – when pigs fly!
11/30/2005
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Sounds like some people are taking themselves and the authors too seriously.
Read it for what it is . . . two opinionated intellectuals with opposing positions applying their own sense of humor to a common rhetorically “negative” position – when pigs fly!
11/30/2005
Posts:1
Sounds like some people are taking themselves and the authors too seriously.
Read it for what it is . . . two opinionated intellectuals with opposing positions applying their own sense of humor to a common rhetorically “negative” position – when pigs fly!
11/30/2005
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11/29/2005
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12/01/2005
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01/13/2006
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Cant Miller see what this sort of thing is fuelling?
mw
12/06/2005
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11/29/2005
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mmmm.....
Those guys were fun to clown around with but I dont think I would take thier opinions of biology too seriously.
This kind of thing may be amusing, but really does nothing to help my understanding, as an ignorant lay person, of the relevant issues.
I read Technology Review to help me understand the issues. I read the Onion for humor and satire. This article would be better there.
11/29/2005
Posts:1
If they have something scientific, I would suppose they will accept the Challenge and try to win the 20.000 $ of the Challenge.
11/29/2005
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11/29/2005
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11/29/2005
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While I disagree with some of De Greys points that this article would get published when there are serious questions is a black eye to Tech Review.
If you dont or wont ask intelligent questions maybe it would be better to stay quiet. How about a discussion point by point? Is that too hard or too much work for Tech Review?
We may never achive immortality but until we try we will never do it either.
11/29/2005
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11/29/2005
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11/29/2005
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11/29/2005
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12/01/2005
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Cant Miller see what this sort of thing is fuelling?
mw
12/06/2005
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Nabukadnezar
04/03/2007
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The abolishment of pain in surgery is a chimera. It is absurd to go on seeking it. . . . Knife and pain are two words in surgery that must forever be associated in the consciousness of the patient.
- Dr. Alfred Velpeau (1839) French surgeon
Men might as well project a voyage to the Moon as attempt to employ steam navigation against the stormy North Atlantic Ocean.
- Dr. Dionysus Lardner (1838) Professor of Natural Philosophy and Astronomy, University College, London
Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.
- Lord Kelvin, ca. 1895, British mathematician and physicist
Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)
madella1
08/14/2007
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Anyway, heres that wired article:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSk9_ZeciEk
Enjoy!
HighBar
06/29/2008
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